I’ve been distracted from my current series by some blog discussions regarding Mark Dever and fundamentalism. (I plan to bring my next post in the Land series tomorrow, Lord willing).
Mark Dever recently interviewed Mark Minnick, who teaches at BJU and pastors in Greenville. I haven’t listened to the interview yet, but I did read some various fundamentalist reactions to it. What piqued my interest was Dever’s recent post entitled: “Mark Dever Doesn’t Practice Separation?”
Mark’s post displays some consternation over charges by fundamentalists that he does not practice separation. He details many ways in which he and his church do separate. Dever’s explanation of separation describes my basic position: that separation does not have to look like the standard fundamentalist fare, in order to still be biblical separation.
You may want to read Dever’s post and then go on to read the comments. There are some thoughtful posts and discussions happening there which are helpful to anyone thinking through the issue of ecclesiastical separation and/or secondary separation.
Wow! Dever’s short article is exactly what I’ve been waiting for from a conservative evangelical. It has been my contention that most conservative evangelicals are closer to historic fundamentalism than those who now call themselves fundamentalists. What he said proves this point. To not separate according to fundamentalists’ standards is, in their minds, a denial of the doctrine of separation. It’s just like not believing in the KJVO’s doctrine of preservation is a denial of preservation altogether. This kind of exclusivity is flagrant pride, pure and simple, and it’s about time someone responds in the tone in which Dever did. Others like him have been so gracious to fundamentalists for so long, but I can’t blame them for wanting to fight back a little. And the great thing is it wasn’t done in a vengeful of spite-filled spirit, but a gracious one, albeit with a bit of godly anger. It would be cool to see Piper come out tomorrow with an article, “20 things I hate about modern day fundamentalism”.
Anyway, I really appreciate how he highlighted a oft-neglected area of separation in fundamentalist circles today: church discipline. Those who carry on with the unregenerate in their churches yet demand separation from the guy across town who has drums, really has no leg on which to stand. What a tremendous reminder to all of us!
DT,
Thanks for your thoughts. I agree that Dever’s article is really encouraging. And you’re right how many fundamentalists drop the ball re: church discipline.
Blessings in Christ,
Bob
Hello Bob,
I came over to your site and read through some of it. I got invovled in the discusion over at Dever’s site, but I don’t fel like anyone is really talking points. Here’s my backgoround. I’m a charismatic conservative. I’m actually staying at the home of two friends who used to be in this group- they led me to the audio. They’ve told me a lot about the arguments and the rough spots of the issues. I have known of John Mac. and Piper and read their books but don’t knwo Dever as much. I have had many Fundamentalsit friends- a few in my life who really feel strong about this separation thing. You responded to me with some good thoughts. I like tobe as knowledgeable as I can about all diferent groups. I enjoy blogging as a hobby(where I spend most my time). I like talking with S.T. Frank of St. Marys Archdocese. I also like talking with peopel from the MCC in Chicago and people from Disciples of Chirst. Very interesting times.
Did you see the questions I posed on the other site? What is your response about “turning poeple over to Satan”? Curious. I’m a little frustrated with te discussion on the other blog. – Please forgive my spelling errors- I try to type fast.
Jeremy,
At that blog, there isn’t always a give and take all that much in the comments. Often with blogs, as you know, once the discussion has died down, people drop out.
Sharper Iron (sharperiron.org), is a place for ongoing discussion.
I agree that turning people over to Satan is a big deal. Separation is a big deal, and usually only happens over significant things. I do think ecclesiastical separation relates to church discipline, but there are few places where separation is directed against brothers. There’s much to think through on the issue, and I think a one-size-fits-all methodology often happens. And then if it’s not done in just that way, fundamentalists assume its not done at all.
Hope that helps some.
Gotta run.
Blessings in Christ,
Bob
I guess I’m just used to the chat room style of comunication. I have been usinng that blog for the last few days and its frustraing to wait for an hour or two or whatever for one response. I fly out tomorrow from here, but when Iget home I may fling a few more questions your way.