Fundamentally Reformed
Reforming Fundamentalism (IFB) through Reformed Theology
  • Home
  • My Story
  • Topics
    • Calvinism
    • Fundamentalism
    • KJV Only?
    • Music
  • Book Reviews
    • Blog for Books
  • Links
    • Articles & Sermons
    • Reciprocal Blogroll
    • Study Tools
  • About
    • About Me
    • Media & Interviews
    • Partner Sites
    • My Commenting Policy
  • Contact
    • Advertising

Was Sin a Mistake??

Posted by fundyreformed on
March 16th, 2007

Any thoughtful Christian has stumbled over the question, “Why did an all powerful God permit sin? Why does sin exist?”

Before I go on to “answer” that question, let me affirm that we humans have limited minds and limited abilities to grasp such “why” questions. Ultimately, God is the potter and can do what He wants. But there are some Biblically faithful answers to these questions.

The Standard Answer

The standard, or typical evangelical answer goes like this. God wanted to have people who truly loved Him. He wanted to share fellowship with created beings. He wanted this so much, he was willing to risk the presence of sin to make us. He did not want to make mere robots, but creatures with a free will. So although God knew sin was going to happen, and He knew sin would have devastating effects on His creation, He was willing to allow it in order to have some people love him freely. He died to save as many as would come. God wants all to come and desires all to be saved, but knows that only some will. And he is happy with all who come and share fellowship with Him. He works all things for the good of His people, because He loves them above all things.

I think this is a pretty good answer, really. Yet there are problems. First, it presents God as limited. Sure the limitations are self-imposed, but the picture we get is that God is frustrated that not all are saved, and that many reject His offer of salvation. Second, it presents God as needy. God wanted fellowship so much, he permitted sin to get it. That makes it seem like God was not totally self sufficient. Given God’s infinitely glorious attributes, why would He really need a creation? Third, it prsents God as loving man above all. God does everything he can to save man. God wants to do everything for man. These views sound right to me, a man. But does God really operate in such a man-serving manner? Is God all about us? Is God man-centered?

A Better Answer

I propose a different answer, but one that is Scripturally sound, I trust. God was totally self-sufficient in the Trinity. He experienced total joy due to an absolute knowledge of all of His infinite perfections. This knowledge produced a great approval of and love for Himself. God loved His own image as represented in His Son’s face. The Holy Spirit participated in this love and joy. (I refer you to Jonathan Edward’s view of the Trinity, here.) In short, God was completely happy to be God, all by Himself: no creation needed.

But since God was experiencing great joy, He wanted to experience even more. And joy increases in the spreading. So God hatched a glorious plan. God would create in order to display His glory, and reveal knowledge about His infinite perfections. This knowledge would lead his chosen people to share in His joy in Himself and cause them to love God.

But intimately connected to his plan was the importance of knowledge. God had to spread a true and correct knowledge of Himself in order for others to really love and find joy in Him. This desire to spread knowledge was definitely proud and self-serving. God wants His own praise to be trumpeted! (Just scan through Isaiah 40-49, for proof.) And who else should God be proud about? To be proud in anything that is not the ultimate best there is, is sin. But God is the ultimate best. So God is selfish and that is okay. But this knowledge also necessitated the existence of sin. Without sin God could not reveal his attributes of love and mercy and longsuffering, and holiness and wrath against sin. There had to be a black backdrop against which the brightness of God’s glory could shine.

So God permitted sin. But He created a world where God is not held responsible for sin. Man is. Satan is. Not God. God is good. But God is the creator and everyone else isn’t. In God’s world, no one is punished unjustly. People all sin (after Adam’s fall, which God knew and foreordained would happen), and they do so willingly. But in this world, God steps in and reveals Himself and saves a people for Himself. God chose these people before He created the world, so God is not frustrated that others besides them are not saved. God finds joy in them, and God’s praise and glory is increased through their sharing in His joy. God gets gloy by being the provider and sustainer of their life, their redemption, and their eternal joy and satisfaction in Him. And this is truly loving to them. He does not serve their selfish interests, but provides what will truly satisfy them–Himself as the Eternal Good they need. And he works things for thier good to show that He is truly good, and to prove His own glorious faithfulness.

Now, some might object to this answer. It makes God unloving to some, they might say. And I am aware there are questions and difficutlites presented here. However, I think the objections raised to the previous answer are just as big and actually bigger. And, most importantly, I think the Bible supports this second answer. It may not be exactly what I as a man (dedicated to my own interests naturally, as the case is with us all) might desire, but it is what God’s Word teaches. Consider Acts 4:27-28 as proof that God holds creatures responsible for their sin, even when God was the One who foreordained that sin to happen, and used it for His ends. And then consider these verses from Romans which capture the heart of this second answer:

You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honored use and another for dishonorable use? What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory– even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles? (Romans 9:19-24)

Before I close, I should encourage you to go check out William Dudding’s thoughts on this problem, as his post sparked mine. Also see Jonathan Edwards’ “On the End for which God Created the World”.

So, what do you think? Or have you thought about this issue? Please join the discussion.

Update: this post by Justin Taylor provides quotes by John Newton dealing with why God allows sin in the lives of believers. It is an edifying read, and I thought I’d add it here, since it relates to this topic.

Share this:

  • Facebook
  • Twitter
  • Google
  • Pinterest
  • Email
  • Print
  • More
  • Reddit
  • StumbleUpon
Categories : Calvinism, Devotional, Suffering, Theology
Tags :

Comments

  1. pitchford says:
    March 16, 2007 at 2:57 am

    Good.

    Soon, my lesson on John 17 (Studies in John: lesson 13) will show up on my blog, in which I spend some time talking about this theme. Tell me what you think (I’ll try to post it tomorrow or the day after, Lord willing).

    Thanks,
    Nathan

  2. Cruv says:
    March 16, 2007 at 9:57 am

    You said,
    “But since God was experiencing great joy, He wanted to experience even more.”

    I understand what you’re trying to say, but the “He wanted to experience even more” contradicts that God is perfect/complete in all of his attributes including “joy”. The only “joy” that can increase is our joy. God’s is full, perfect, complete.

    Other than that, good post.

    =D

  3. fundyreformed says:
    March 16, 2007 at 11:23 am

    Cruv,

    I don’t view joy as an attribute, really. Although Scripture does refer to God as a Happy God.

    If you think about joy, though, it is contagious and increases in the sharing. If you are really excited about something, you just have to tell others about it. I think this is analogous to how joy really is even for God.

    But you are right, this part is mystery. We know God gets more glory and delight and joy in His people. But we also know God does not need us to be perfectly happy.

    Thanks for commenting. Your blog looks great, and I like your blogroll. And the theme! I’ll have to check it out some more.

    Blessings in Christ to you,

    Bob Hayton

  4. fundyreformed says:
    March 16, 2007 at 11:26 am

    Nathan P.,

    Thanks. I will check your post out, too.

  5. jamsco says:
    March 16, 2007 at 4:05 pm

    Thanks for the blog. But as you might guess from earlier conversation I think “God permitted sin” sounds too passive.

  6. fundyreformed says:
    March 16, 2007 at 9:00 pm

    Jamsco,

    God ordained sin. He used sin. But He did not commit sin. So I see that as permitting it, but I agree it is more than just permit.

    By the way, you’re sounding very Calvinistic too! ;)

  7. reglerjoe says:
    March 17, 2007 at 9:02 pm

    I agree. The “God-didn’t-want-any-robots” theory always seemed a little…shallow. Why wasn’t God happy with the love that existed in the Godhead? How could the freewill love of sinful man be an improvement?

    The Calvinistic perspective I believe is much more biblical. The redemption of a chosen people and the judgment of sin glorifies all the attributes of our Sovereign God.

  8. fundyreformed says:
    March 17, 2007 at 9:20 pm

    Straight ahead, Joe!

  9. Gage Browning says:
    March 20, 2007 at 5:49 pm

    Joe is on the money. If God was in need of love other than the love that exists in Trinity, then God is indeed not perfect and therfore not God. The love of man, (pre-fall or fallen) could not be an improvement upon the perfect love of the Triune God. The reformational waters are warm Joe. Cmon in…the water is warm.

    Gage Browning
    Post Tenebras Lux

  10. Josh W says:
    March 20, 2007 at 9:17 pm

    How does God’s ability to operate beyond the boundaries of time effect this discussion? I think that it brings some semblance of rationalism to the discussion. If God is not bound by time, then the moment of original sin is the moment of the redemption plan. Not that this idea is new or without its own issues (Paul likes to use the aorist tense quite a bit in his writings and the concept of linear time is embedded in Scripture. I’m not sure but that it might be the limitations of language.). But it would appear to me that God hints at such notions with descriptions like “I AM”, “Alpha & Omega”, and using phrases such as “a day = a thousand years. I also feel that Arminianism is not whole without Calvinism and visa versa. Just because one idea is true does not make the opposite idea false.

  11. fundyreformed says:
    March 21, 2007 at 12:06 am

    Josh,

    Not sure I completely follow you. But God created with redemption in mind. So he also created with sin in mind. So at some level God is responsible for the existence of sin. Scripture doesn’t present this as if it is God reacting to the problem of evil, no God caused evil and harnesses it to His ends.

  12. ThirstyDavid says:
    March 28, 2007 at 11:21 am

    I don’t know how I missed this post when it was fresh, but these are some very good thoughts on a very difficult question. I’m withholding my opinion because I don’t have a good one. Yours is pretty good, I think.

    By the way, I’ve added you to my blogroll. It’s long overdue.

  13. fundyreformed says:
    March 28, 2007 at 11:50 am

    David,

    Thanks for the link. I appreciate it!

    You did link to this post when it was fresh (on 3/17 I believe). But another link is great too.

    I appreciate your blog much. And I’ve begun linking to blogs in my sidebar now too. I failed to mention your blog as contributing to my idea to do that.

    Thanks again, and God bless.

    Bob Hayton

  14. ThirstyDavid says:
    March 28, 2007 at 11:56 am

    You’re right, I did. My mind must be slipping!

  15. fundyreformed says:
    March 28, 2007 at 12:00 pm

    And you still don’t have an opinion??

    Just joking.

  16. fundyreformed says:
    March 28, 2007 at 12:07 pm

    Thirsty,

    I just noticed you have some links on KJVO-ism on your blog. Perhaps you’d be interested in checking out my KJV Only Debate Resource Center.

    (I actually chose my name without realizing how similar it is to Kutilek and Company’s site. I promote alot of their stuff, though so I hope they don’t mind!)

  17. ThirstyDavid says:
    March 28, 2007 at 10:42 pm

    Yeah, I’ll check that out. I’ve already got some of your blog posts filed away for whenever I get around to updating that.

  18. fundyreformed says:
    March 29, 2007 at 12:13 am

    Thanks again, Dave.

    Blessings in Christ,

    Bob

  19. caseyc says:
    September 19, 2007 at 8:36 am

    Is God all about us? Is God man-centered?

    I don’t think it boils down to that. God is all about love, and so it must necessarily appear that he is all about us, even though that is not the case. I think the real answer is probably somewhere in the middle…

  20. Jonathan Edwards on the Problem of Evil :: Fundamentally Reformed says:
    December 19, 2012 at 6:44 am

    […] Edwards has perhaps the clearest answer that I have found. I delve into his thought a bit in this article, but here I want to share a quote I recently included in my SS class this past Sunday. May it help […]

Sponsors

 

Recent Activity

  • Posts
  • Comments
  • Tweets
Recent Posts
  • Living in the Light: Money, Sex and Power by John Piper
  • Sermon Download: Rest for Your Souls
  • Programming Note
  • Thankful for 10 Years
  • Book Brief: Reformation Readings of Paul edited by Michael Allen and Jonathan A. Linebaugh
  • In the Box: New Titles from Broadman & Holman and Baker Academic
  • Graeme Goldsworthy on How to Use Typology & Biblical Theology in Preaching
Recent Comments
  • Ike Dalley on ABC News’ 20/20 Show Lampoons Independent Fundamental Baptists
  • ASTRID COMERFORD on ABC News’ 20/20 Show Lampoons Independent Fundamental Baptists
  • Panait Ciprian on "Wine to Gladden the Heart of Man": Thoughts on God’s Good Gift of Wine
  • Robert leathley on My Story with a Critique of Fundamentalist Extremism and a Defense of my Positions
  • Perspectives of Israel and the Church: 4 Views – A Review | Seth Dunn on Perspectives on Israel and the Church: Four Views edited by Chad O. Brand
  • Arthur Hansen on Charles Finney and The Altar Call
  • Jason Cherry on Charles Finney and The Altar Call
@rjhayton
My Tweets

Follow Me

  • Social Media
  • Subscribe
  • Stats

            
         

  • Entries Feed 
  • Comments Feed 

TwitterCounter for @rjhayton       StatCounter - Free Web Tracker and Counter
Alexa Certified Traffic Ranking for fundamentallyreformed.com

Archives

  • Search
  • Archives
  • Categories
Archives
Categories

Recommended Reading

  • Favorite Posts
  • Partner Sites
  • Pages
    Posts
  • 1 Thessalonians and the Church's Greatest Need
  • Calvinism & Evangelism
  • Defining KJV Onlyism
  • Minimizing the Gospel through Excessive Separation
  • My Explanation of the Five Points of Calvinism
  • Once Saved, Always Saved?!?!
  • The Real Meaning of 1 Thessalonians 5:22
  • Regeneration, Reception & Faith
  • The Role of the Church in KJV Onlyism
  • Stomping Toes and Stomping Souls: The Moralistic Bent to Fundamentalist Preaching
  • Why I'm not 100% for Fairhaven Baptist Church
  • Why Preachers Fall
  • Series
  • A Survey of the Reformation: It's History and Doctrine
  • The Gospel's Work in Believers
  • Understanding the Land Promise
  • KJV Only Debate Blog
  • Cross Focused Reviews
  • Re:Fundamentals.org
  • Sharper Iron
  • Topics
    • Calvinism
    • Fundamentalism
    • KJV Only?
    • Music
  • Book Reviews
    • Blog for Books
  • Links
    • Articles & Sermons
    • Study Tools
  • About
    • My Story
    • Contact Me

Blogroll

  • Top Blogs
  • Friends
  • Reciprocal
  • Andy Naselli
  • Beginning With Moses
  • Between 2 Worlds
  • Biblical Theology
  • Church Matters
  • Credo Mag Blog
  • Evangelical Textual Criticism
  • Glory and Grace
  • Hip and Thigh
  • Leviticus and Stuff
  • PaleoEvangelical
  • Parchment and Pen
  • Pensees
  • Reformation Theology
  • Sharper Iron
  • The Desiring God Blog
  • Thirsty Theologian
  • Transformed by Grace
  • Urban Missional
  • Worship Matters
  • Abraham's Seed
  • Alex Chediak
  • Big Orange Truck
  • Bread & Circuses
  • Bible Geek Gone Wild
  • Ephemeros
  • Forgiven Sinner's Blog
  • Free from the Box
  • Nathan W. Bingham
  • Nathan Pitchford
  • Pastoral Musings
  • Reforming Fundamentalists Blog Network
  • Return to Biblicism
  • TaylorMatthews
  • The Misadventures of Capt'n Headknowledge
  • The Reformed Fundamentalist
  • The Reforming Baptist
  • The Responsible Puppet
  • The Responsible Father
  • Theology for the Road
  • A True Believer's Weblog
  • Always Reforming
  • Authentic Truth
  • Caffeinated Thoughts
  • Candid Christian
  • Christ in All the Scriptures
  • Classless and Lovin' It
  • Christian Conservative
  • Craig's List
  • Critical Thinking
  • Developing the Mind of Christ
  • Ek Pyros
  • Earning Grace
  • Eskypades
  • Ephemeros
  • F3 Coalition
  • Flying by Grace
  • Fully Alive in Christ
  • Grace Through Faith
  • Gospel Community Culture
  • Hither and Yon
  • KevinStilley.com
  • Kingdom Living in Missouri
  • Lawn Gospel
  • Martin Murphy
  • MouseNaround
  • New Covenant Living
  • New Creation Person
  • New Jersey Jesus
  • NewsForChristians.com
  • Phil's Mind Map
  • Pilgrim's Pub
  • Principled Biblicist
  • Pulpit and Pen
  • Reformanda
  • Reformation Faith
  • Reformed Covenanter
  • Reformed Wretch
  • Reformed Living
  • Rev22.org
  • Ryan in Process
  • Scot W. Kay
  • Sola Gratia
  • Sound Clear
  • The Blacktown Care Group
  • The Contemporary Calvinist
  • The Daily Bleat
  • The Parson's Ponderings
  • The Truth in Context
  • Think Theology
  • Thoughts from a Sojourning Southerner
  • To Tell You the Truth
  • What Accords with Sound Doctrine
  • You See Dry Bones
  • Young Fundamentalist
  • Youthful Considerations
  • **Get your Blog Llisted here

Virtual Bookshelf

  • Reviews
  • Goodreads
  • LibraryThing
Latest Reviews
  • Living in the Light: Money, Sex and Power by John Piper
  • Book Brief: Reformation Readings of Paul edited by Michael Allen and Jonathan A. Linebaugh
  • Day of Atonement: A Novel of the Maccabean Revolt by David DeSilva
  • Perspectives on Israel and the Church: Four Views edited by Chad O. Brand
  • Book Briefs: The Advocate by Randy Springer
  • When Sinners Say “I Do” DVD by Dave Harvey
  • Book Briefs: Against the Flow: The Inspiration of Daniel in an Age of Relativism by John Lennox
•   See all my reviews here
RSS Bob's bookshelf: currently-reading
  • Praying with Paul: A Call to Spiritual Reformation
  • 40 Questions About Baptism and the Lord's Supper
  • The Flow of the Psalms: Discovering Their Structure and Theology
  • 24/7: A One Year Chronological Bible
  • Kingdom Come: The Amillennial Alternative
RSS bobhayton's books from LibraryThing
  • Perspectives on Israel and the Church: 4 Views by Chad Brand
  • Mission Accomplished: A Two-Week Family Easter Devotional by Scott James
  • Samuel Rutherford: Bitesize Biography (Bitesize Biographies) by Richard Hannula
  • Spurgeon's Sorrows: Realistic Hope for those who Suffer from Depression by Zack Eswine
  • Commentary on Exodus, A (Kregel Exegetical Library) by Duane Garrett
  • God Dwells Among Us: Expanding Eden to the Ends of the Earth by G. K. Beale
  • Invitation to Philippians: Building a Great Church through Humility (Biblical Preaching for the Contemporary Church) by Donald R. Sunukjian

My Reviews By the Numbers

2006: 3 reviews 2007: 6 reviews
2008: 6 reviews 2009: 28 reviews
2010: 30 reviews 2011: 42 reviews
2012: 24 reviews 2013: 28 reviews
2014: 20 reviews 2015: 14 (so far)

Grand Total: 201 book & media reviews
from more than 35 different publishers.

See all my reviews.

Blog for Book Programs



gtb_banner_ad_home







Odds `N Ends

  • Honors
  • Member of
  • Credits






A Good Finish
A View From Serenity Acres
Abraham's Seed
All Things New
All Thyngs
Aspiring PolyMathis
By Grace Alone
Caffeinated Theology
Calvinistic Cartoons
Contra Mundum
Daily On My Way To Heaven
Deek Dubberly
Early Christian America
Fundamentally Reformed
Heavenly Springs
Orange County Calvinist
Journal From The Street
Justification by Grace
Music From Broken Chords
Random Thoughts From A Cluttered Mind
Refocusing Our Eyes
Reformation Coalition
Robert, Restless and Always Reforming
Seeing The Kingdom
The Bible Christian
The Cross Is All
The Old Dead Guys
The Misadventures of Captain Headknowledge
The Reformed Traveler
Throw AWay Everything
Timothy Matters
Vision Viewpoint
who am i?

The League of Tyndale
Pro Life Blogs Fish the Net Top 1000 Christian Bloggers The League of Reformed Bloggers ChristianTop1000.com The BaptistTop1000.com Fundamental Christian Topsites

Scripture Quotes from:
Scripture quotations taken from the English Standard Version.  Click to learn more about the ESV Bible
All content on this website is copyrighted and protected by:
MyFreeCopyright.com Registered & Protected

Fundamentally Reformed
Copyright © 2016 All Rights Reserved
iThemes Builder by iThemes
Powered by WordPress
loading Cancel
Post was not sent - check your email addresses!
Email check failed, please try again
Sorry, your blog cannot share posts by email.