Tag: Betlehem Baptist

Fundamentalists & Evangelicals Together? — The Advancing the Church Conference Evaluated

~ Bob Hayton ~ 2 Comments

I haven’t listened to the audio from Calvary Baptist Seminary’s Advancing the Church conference yet, as it wasn’t available until yesterday or so. I started listening to the panel sessions, and plan to listen to most of the messages. I have been reading several reactions to the conference, however, and I wanted to make my readers aware of the conference and the discussion it has generated.

The conference featured fundamentalist leaders Dr. Dave Doran (pastor of Inter-City Baptist Church and president of Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary, both in Allen Park, MI), Dr. Kevin Bauder (president of Central Baptist Theological Seminary in Minneapolis, MN), Dr. Tim Jordan (pastor of of Calvary Baptist Church in Lansdale, PA) and Dr. Sam Harbin (president of Calvary Baptist Theological Seminary in Lansdale, PA). The guest of note, and the keynote speaker, however, was Dr. Mark Dever (pastor of Capitol Hill Baptist Church in Washington, DC and president of 9 Marks Ministries). Mark Dever, is a leader in the Southern Baptist Convention and is not a fundamentalist (in the sense of the fundamentalist movement common in independent Baptist churches). Mark Dever is a leader among the conservative evangelicals, and his ministry focuses on equipping local churches and promoting historic Baptist church polity.

So at ATC, we had Fundamentalists and Evangelicals Together! Well, at least one evangelical, together. I don’t know if the acronym FET will work as well as the one which marks another contemporary Church phenomenon (ECT)**. And furthermore, I am not sure what we have here is any kind of official convergence bringing opposing factions closer to a mutual agreement. But I, for one, am encouraged by the participation of Mark Dever in the ATC conference, and the fellowship that was shared publicly and in private between the fundamentalist leaders mentioned and Mark Dever.

To help understand what happened at ATC, the following news reports will help.

Baptist Bulletin has three articles reporting on the conference:

Brian McCrorie and a few others, contributed several summaries of the panel sessions and individual sessions on the Sharper Iron Event Blog. Click here for all the Event Blog posts, and click here for Brian’s concluding thoughts about his experience at ATC.

Dr. Kevin Bauder gave his reflections, which amounts to a very long blog post detailing his own personal conclusions, presently, about Fundamentalists working together with Evangelicals. For those wondering if Kevin is ready to eject from fundamentalism, this should answer your question with a resounding NO. Personally, I think Kevin Bauder is defining separation to broadly and ready to apply it to quickly — but that’s my general take on most of fundamentalism in general. If you’re interested you can see a bit of an exchange between yours truly and Dr. Bauder in the comments under that long post. I think Dr. Bauder clarifies himself but I still disagree.

Here is the link to where you can freely download the conference audio. Warning the file sizes are quite big.

Let me know if you have any thoughts on this. I’m interested to hear if anyone attended this conference or has listened to some of the audio/followed the blog conversation thus far. Are we looking at an eventual collusion between conservative evangelicals like Mark Dever and fundamentalists? Personally, I think both groups could be improved through such a scenario.

**I should note, that I am not in favor of the goals of Evangelicals and Catholics Together.

What’s Wrong with a Small Church Again?

~ Bob Hayton ~ 16 Comments

Recently I led my family to leave the booming conservative mega-church in our area to help out in the launching of a new church plant in St. Paul. We loved Pastor John Piper’s preaching, and we loved the people we had come to know at Bethlehem Baptist Church but we had come up against some problems.

We found it very hard to make meaningful relationships in such a large body. We had to work at connecting with other believers. With our crew of kids (we have five girls, and the oldest is 7 now), picking up and dropping off our kids from nursery kept us busy enough as it was. We found a way through our small group and an adult Sunday School class to get to know folks and feel that we were truly a part of all that was swirling around us.

As for serving, there weren’t as many places to be involved in adult SS teaching or ministry. And even being involved didn’t allow you to get to know all the pastors and elders like I would have liked. There were ways my wife served in kids classes, and in time we could have found more ways to serve. But it sure felt that we weren’t that needed. With so many bodies around, and with so many who seemed more connected and rooted there than we, it would be easy to just coast rather than serve.

In a small church context now, that’s a whole different story. We came hoping to serve and have been blessed to be a part of numerous ministries at Beacon of Hope church. But even apart from the ministries, just being a member in a small congregation (we have 140 on our best days right now) automatically means we know others and are known by them – intimately. We still have to work at connecting, but we have grown to know many people more closely than we had the chance at the larger church. What’s more, is that we really are needed and missed when we are out of town. We have a great every-member ethic where we depend on everyone. I would say upwards of 75% of our regular attenders are involved in some sort of ministry. And we are intentionally getting in one another’s lives and sharing the Christian life together.

Now our church does have aspirations to grow. And we are growing. But I hope we don’t lose the sense of being a small church. There is a great opportunity in being a small, intimate group of fellow Christ-followers. Erik DiVietro, a friend of mine, has recently launched a blog toting the benefits of an “intimate church”. He pastors a small church of no more than 150 folk in New Hampshire. And he makes some good points when he argues that being big doesn’t necessarily mean that a church is better:

We assume that bigger is a better value. This is true of our thinking when it comes to meals and it is true of our thinking about churches as well. But is it true?

It is true that large churches generally do have more resources, but do those resources really translate into any type of “˜improved’ Christians? This is not a criticism of large churches, but we do need to make a serious evaluation of the thinking that says bigger is better.

Are large churches really any better at bringing people into encounters with Jesus Christ? Are large churches really any better at teaching people the teachings of Christ and the Apostles?

Since both these things are ministries of the Holy Spirit, we must answer those questions with an emphatic NO. Regardless of the size of a congregation, the Spirit of God does the saving and teaching of believers — through other believers. And since Jesus promised he would be present wherever two or three are gathered, we must conclude that being big does not make a church better.

He goes on to argue that small churches are more suitable to developing deep relationships which provide a perfect context for enduring minsitry. I encourage you to give his article a read, and follow his new blog: Intimate Church.