The Lordship Debate Continues

I just want to let you know about a very important discussion going on about Lordship Salvation over at Pulpit Live (a magazine/blog produced by John MacArthur’s church). The first article was posted Monday and they are posting one article a day. In the comment thread, one fast learns just how important an issue this still is. The latest post gives a brief history of the whole Lordship debate. I highly recommend these posts as worthy of your attention.

Oh, by the way, Phil Johnson is posting his own personal testimony of how he became involved in the lordship debate. He used to be on the other side of that debate, so it promises to also be a good series of posts.


∼striving for the unity of the faith for the glory of God∼ Eph. 4:3,13 “¢ Rom. 15:5-7

What to Do When the Joy's Not There

Dan Phillips has a good post challenging us to worship God even when we don’t feel like it. He describes a situation where he genuninely thanked God although at the time he did not feel necessarily thankful or joyful. From this experience Dan asks the following pertinent questions:

But did the prayer, the worship, not “count,” because I didn’t have any of those wonderful emotions we’re supposed to have? Was it not real worship, because it wasn’t emotional worship? What do you do if you don’t feel anything? [underlined word was italicized in the original]

At this point, Dan has some strong words against charismatics in general and also against John Piper.  

Here’s where Piper will point to the many passages about joy and rejoicing, assert that they’re feelings, and as much as say that they are absolutely essential. The Charismatic…will agree. And so what this mindset produces is that you chase the feeling, you chase the emotion, you do whatever you have to do to get that emotion back — because if it’s not there, what you’re doing isn’t real. It doesn’t “count.”

In fact, I’ve known people who simply stop and refuse to budge until they get the emotions back. They don’t “feel” like going to church. Therefore going wouldn’t be real worship. Therefore they don’t go. They don’t “feel” like showing love (or respect) to their wives (or husbands). So it wouldn’t be a spiritual action. So they don’t do it. They don’t “feel” like reading their Bibles, and it’s a “dry” experience. So they don’t.

Or they sing “Breathe” or some chorus ten or twenty times, or get slapped on the forehead, or babble, or do the hokey-pokey, or whatever it might take to roil up those flighty emotions. They chase the emotion, the experience, so they can get going again spiritually.

I call it “making a god of your glands.” And I call it tempting God. And I call it unbelief.   [bold emphasis mine; underlined words were italicized in the original]

I think those are some pretty strong words. Perhaps he is more concerned with the run-of-the-mill charismatic than with Piper, but the words speak for themselves.  

His conclusion is to live from conviction. To just fight on. Not to seek for emotions, but to seek for God. And to a degree I would agree. However, I think his conclusion misses something. I think he is belittling the importance of emotions.  

John Piper specifically addresses this same overall problem in his book When I Don’t Desire God: How to Fight for Joy. On pages 220-222 he sets out to answer this question: “If joy in God is the fountain of love and the root of right living–as I believe it is–can behavior that proceeds without joy be virtuous?” What follows is a quote from comments I left under Dan’s post over at Pyromaniacs. It is the answer that Piper provides to the above question. I think Piper’s answer is better than Dan’s and does more justice to the Biblical call to “always rejoice”.

He answers the question on two levels:

First, I would say that a Christian, no matter how dark the season of his sadness, never is completely without joy in God. I mean that there remains in his heart the seed of joy in the form, perhaps only of a remembered taste of goodness and an unwillingness to let the goodness go….” (pg. 220)

“The other answer…is that we should never say to ourselves or another person in the season of darkness, ‘Just do your work. Just do your duty. Just act like a Christian, evein if you don’t feel like one.’” (pg. 220)

Before yoy say “Aha!”, Piper clarifies this assertion (the quote picks up right where I left off above):

“That’s almost good advice. but the problem is in the word just. Instead of only saying, ‘just do your duty,’ we must say four other things as well.

First, we must say that joy is part of your duty.” He cites 1 Thess. 5:16, 2 Cor. 9:7, Ps. 100:2, Rom. 12:8 and James 1:2 here. (pg. 220)

He goes on…

“The second thing we must say when we tell a disconsolate person to ‘do their job’ is that while they do their job, they should probably be repenting and confessing the sin of gloomy faith….Failing to rejoice in God when we are commanded to rejoice is sin.” (pg. 221)

“…the third thing we say along with ‘Do your duty’….[is] As you are able to do some of your duty, ask God that the joy be restored. That is, don’t sit and wait for the joy, saying, ‘I will be a hypocrite if I do an act of mercy today, since I do not feel the joy of mercy.'” (pg. 221)

“And the fourth thing we say,…is, ‘Be sure to thank God as you work that he has given you at least the will to work.’…Your aim in loosing your tongue with words of gratitude is that God would be merciful and fill your words with the emotion of true gratitude….”(pg. 221-222)   [All bolding emphasis added by me; underlined words were italicized in the original]

[For more on this whole issue read Piper’s book When I Don’t Desire God: How to Fight for Joy. You can read it online for free here (pdf).]


∼striving for the unity of the faith for the glory of God∼ Eph. 4:3,13 “¢ Rom. 15:5-7

"Can We Talk Truth That Might Get Us Killed?"

Pastor John Piper is loved for his passionate preaching. And  I don’t  know if I have ever heard him as passionate as he was this past Sunday.

In my last post I linked to a great article written by Pastor John concerning the Muslim reaction to a recent address by the pope.    That article is a well crafted appeal for Christians to  both love Muslims and stand up for the name of Jesus Christ.    

Toward the end of his message, Piper mentions the article as he is dealing with  this phrase from  Rom. 16:4: “who risked their necks for my life”. Piper goes on to stress how what he wrote could potentially get him killed by Muslim extremists. And he discusses how Christians need to be willing to risk their lives in this way to stand up for the truth of the gospel. [If you are going to take issue with Pastor John on this, please read his brief article mentioned above first!]

Unfortunately, in the editing of Pastor John’s sermons for placement on the web, this passionate appeal gets left out of the print edition of his sermon. It is still there however in both the audio and video versions. What follows is my own transcription of Pastor Piper’s passionate appeal to put your life on the line in standing up for the name of Jesus Christ.

Many people don’t have to risk their lives, but some do. And frankly, after a week like this, I look at the rage in the world against Christians, from some, of course, not all Muslims, I think: “Hmmm, this is a conversation couples should have”….[Couples], who care about holding to the truth…this is a conversation you should have …They put their necks (this is a very good image), they put their necks on the block for him [Paul]. This is death.

Notice, husbands and wives, it doesn’t say Aquila risked his neck for me. That’s not what it says. I don’t like the idea of Noel dying at my side; I would rather die to save my family. I don’t like the idea of all three of us at home dying, with a bomb or anthrax or poisoned water or whatever—I don’t cherish that thought. That’s the thought here: the couple together risked their lives.

So last night, before we went to bed, I said, “We need to have this conversation, Noel, because I am going to say this out loud.” I said, “What I wrote in the Star this week could get me killed.” And I’m going to write it ’till I die. Are you with me? And you know what she said? “There is no turning back.” And there isn’t.

What are we going to do? Just go silent when things get tough? When real first century Christianity is suddenly on us? We are all going to show our true colors. (He makes a mumbling noise.) “Not the only way…not divine…not crucified…not ‘He who does not have the Son…does not have life’ [1 Jn. 5:12]…not ‘He who does not obey the Son,…the wrath of God rests upon him’ [Jn. 3:36].” Don’t talk like that among Jews and Muslims and Hindus and Buddhists. You’re gonna get yourself killed! Well, how else are we gonna’ spread the aroma of Jesus? Change the gospel? Yeah, that’s what a lot of people do. We’re not going there. And if you don’t want to go to a church that might get bombed, go to another church! Because the message we have is that Jesus is God. And there are no others. There’s so much to say….

Have that conversation tonight, okay couples?….Can we talk truth that might get us killed? Can we risk our lives for a Paul, [for] Christ? Oh what a chapter this is! What a web of precious partnerships!….What a woman and a man, Prisca and Aquila were! What a great Lord and Savior they served! Let us join them!


∼striving for the unity of the faith for the glory of God∼ Eph. 4:3,13 “¢ Rom. 15:5-7

Bobspotted Blogroll: September 24, 2006


Must Read from John Piper

  • If your head is not stuck in the sand, you probably have heard about the latest Muslim hissy fit. This time it is over statements from the pope taken out of context, rather than Danish cartoons. For us Christians, who routinely endure harsh criticisms from both West and East, it is easy to get bent out of shape over Muslims’ insistence to make mountains out of molehills. And it is probably good to be somewhat upset over the inconsistency of Muslims. When someone infuriates us Christians, we might strike back with a torrent of words. But when the Muslims are infuriated, public calls for anger, violent demonstrations and attacks are the result.
  • Well in the midst of all of this, John Piper provides some very encouraging and insightful comments. He describes just how Christians should respond to the controversy surrounding Muslim outrage over the pope’s comments.
  • Late Addition: Clickhere to read the pope’s speech. It is very good, actually. His main point is that Western society is wrong to  exclude questions of faith  from the category of reason. And he further argues that this feature of the West in effect makes religion and faith a kind of sub-culture. So it is no wonder, he concludes, that the West cannot effectively interact with Eastern and other religious-based cultures. (HT: John Chitty for the link)

On the Dearth of Cross-Centered Worship

  • Bob Kauflin has an excellent post concerning a contemporary tendency to  not focus on the cross in worship songs. He mentions song writers who are focusing on the cross, and gives some reasons as to why others are not. It is a very worthwhile read.

Redemptive Historical Hermeneutical Jewels

On the King James Only Issue

Radical Thoughts from World from Our Window

On Interpreting 1 Cor. 13:12  

“For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.” — I Corinthians 13:9, 10. This verse was written by the apostle Paul, who only had a partial Bible (the Old Testament). The word “perfect” in the Bible means complete (see James 1:4 et al). Today we have the complete, perfect King James Bible, and as God promised, that which was in part has been done away (i.e. the original Hebrew and Greek manuscripts used in time past, which were only a part of the Bible respectively).

(And yes, he is defending the absurd view that the KJV  English is superior to the  Greek).

Some of Those Other Guys  

  • Everyone has their circle of friends and list of blogs they keep track of. As you all should be able to tell from now, I try to faithfully keep up with some ex-IFBx bloggers, and other  reforming  fundamentalists (most of these blogs are listed in this post).   I also try to keep abreast with what is going on over at  Sharper Iron,  occasionally spending some time in the forums there. I do try to  keep my ear to the ground for any great posts from Pyromaniacs, Reformation Theology, Between Two Worlds, Adrian Warnock’s blog, and a few other blogs for good measure, too.
  • Well this means, obviously, that there are a whole host of other blogs run by other guys (and gals), with whom I rarely interact with. No one can interact with all the blogs out there, unless of course you are Mathew Simsand you can read 5 blog posts a minute. (Check out his ridiculously long blogspotting posts–which always seem to exclude me :)! Just kidding here, he is a blogging pal and I do hold a place of honor in his very long blogfolio—a daily read, no less)
  • Boy, this is turning into quite the long introduction! Anyway, I wanted to make my readers aware of some of those other guys—a group of guys who are fundamentalist reformers in their own right. I think most of them are loosely connected with Northland Baptist Bible College, and some are blessed (?) to know my brother Dave.
  • To introduce you to a few of them, let me link to some good posts.  

Finally

  • I must  include a  shameless self plug for my recent post: “Lord’s Supper—Snack or Feast?” I would love for some more input from my readers as to whether they agree with my thesis that the Lord’s Supper would be better celebrated with a meal than with cracker crumbs and thimble-sized cups of juice.

Late Addition

Yeah, That's Me

Click to read

Young, Restless, Reformed

 

Yeah, that’s me.   Okay, maybe I don’t wear the shirt, and I don’t carry any card, but I am young, somewhat restless, and reformed.

The link takes you to Christianity Today‘s most recent cover article with the above title. It is an excellent article, thoughtful and fair. It is every bit as good as I thought it might be. It describes the phenomenon well. I can’t really find something to excerpt, you just got to go read it all. (HT: Ben Wright for letting me know it was finally online)


∼striving for the unity of the faith for the glory of God∼ Eph. 4:3,13 “¢ Rom. 15:5-7