Category: My Journey

My story in regards to fundamentalism, and any reflections or personal ruminations along the way

Leaving the Village

~ Bob Hayton ~ 2 Comments

village

It takes a great deal of courage to follow the Lord’s call and leave the only church you’ve ever known. When I shared my story of leaving extreme fundamentalism, I was trying to deal with the trauma in one sense, but I also wanted to find camaraderie and support from others via the internet. I had become aware that I wasn’t the only one experiencing the turmoil of finally seeing the world through different eyes.

Over the years, I’ve had numerous expressions of thanks as people have commented on my blog posts or contacted me via email or Facebook. I’ve also had my share of ill-will directed toward me, as people assume that our dramatic change was a cop-out and an excuse to live it up in the world. In truth, it was the hardest thing my wife and I ever did: we risked alienating ourselves from both sides of our family and ruining the only real friendships we had.

There are now a lot of ex-fundamentalist blogs out there. And there are a host of other “survivor” type blogs as well. Some exaggerate the problems of fundamentalism, others jettison any connection with Christianity at all. The internet is a mixed bag, for sure. But it has helped shed light on the beliefs and practices of any group. Mormons have found the internet and are starting to see the problems in their church’s historical dogmas. And countless others have been rescued from cults as they do their own secret internet research.

Like anything, the internet in the wrong hands can be bad. But the truth is not ashamed of honest inquiry: which is why Christianity has and will only continue to flourish in the internet age.

I say all this by way of introduction as I want to direct your attention to a new blog from a Facebook friend of mine. It is called Leaving the Village and describes his own exodus from a legalistic, controlling faith community. His story is very similar to mine, in some respects. And for those struggling to decide how to proceed in their own faith journey, reading his story may be a blessing. He doesn’t try to trash his former church but is sharing his heart and how it felt to go through the process that lead to his “leaving the village.”

In his message to me he shares his motivation for the blog:

Hey Bob, your blog and story were a huge help to me when I was walking away from ——. Just simply knowing I wasn’t alone was one of the biggest things I needed to see.

I just started a blog to try to tell my story and help young guys in the same way you helped me. I’m trying to get the word out about it, but I’m not linking directly through my own social media yet. I don’t want my former pastor to just dismiss the blog as a hit piece. I’m writing with a bit of anonymity, but not pulling any punches.

Anyways, I was wondering if you might consider reading the first post and possibly sharing it on your blog. No pressure, I just wanted to ask you to consider it.

Regardless of what you do, thanks again for the encouragement you gave me.

Go over and read his first post. Then bookmark his site, as it promises to be good reading.

Here is an excerpt to get you started:

It’s hard to imagine unless you’ve been there. One decision, one moment changing the whole course of your life and the life of your family. Regardless of your story, everyone faces life changing decisions at some point, but the feelings of angst and terror seem to be multiplied when those decisions involve leaving a religious cult.

I know, the word cult is a loaded term. It’s also pretty polarizing. Those within the cult never see it as a cult. If they did, they would leave. But those outside it look back in and, at least in my case, ask questions like, “How did I stay duped for so long?” or “Why do people stay?” Calling something a cult has far less to do with its message and far more to do with its methods. But again, that’s a subjective definition that someone inside a cult is bound to disagree with….

My goal is not… to correct misguided beliefs or point out the flaws of others. We all hold presuppositions, more than we care to admit, and attempts at correcting your presuppositions will only go as far as you allow them.

Instead, I want to share my story–a story of angst, a story of searching for truth, a story of a guy looking for a God who was there all along, guiding each step of the journey. I know my audience is small. Not too many people grew up in “a village.” But if you’re one that did and you’re reading this, then know this, you are not alone. Rather than try to convince you of one position against another, I simply want to meet you in the journey and share in the feelings and longings that can be down right terrifying.

My prayer is that you know the road you walk is not one walked alone. Leaving the village and embracing the mystery of a life of faith in Jesus was the best thing that ever happened to me.

Audio Interview: Leaving the Extremes of Fundamentalism

~ Bob Hayton

duddingI wanted to call your attention to a 3 part audio interview of Will Dudding (pictured to the right). The interview centers on his story of leaving the extremes of Fundamentalism. Kevin Thompson is interviewing Will on his new podcast, Gospel Points.

Will Dudding is the pastor of Mission Peak Baptist Church in Fremont, CA. He also blogs at Reforming Baptist. Part one is available (click here) and sets the stage. Will’s personal story is going to be the focus of part two which should went live today. Stay tuned to Kevin’s blog on Friday for the third part of this interview.

If you can’t wait for the rest of Will’s interview, you can listen to my interview (also done by Kevin Thompson on his “Understanding Our Times” podcast) on the subject “Fundamentalism and Reformed Theology.” Links to that interview and a few others are available on my media page.

Another Reader’s Story

~ Bob Hayton

Often I receive emails from readers who have stumbled across “my story.” Most of them thank me for taking the time to share as they have gone through similar circumstances and are helped by my own experience. Sometimes these emails or Facebook messages include a detailed story from the reader — of their own journey with respect to fundamentalism. I have shared a few reader’s stories so far, and now have another story to add to the mix.

I have made some slight edits and changed some of the details to protect this reader’s privacy, but she is a real person sharing her thoughts and questions about fundamentalism.

Hello, Bob. I ran across your blog on the internet again, from when I first saw it, 2 yrs ago. 🙂 You took my thoughts and words right out of my mind and heart as I read your Story.

I’ll put this as short as I can. We ended up moving to the deep south in 92. We were invited to an IFB revival meeting week. My husband gets saved, and we are for the next 7 yrs immersed in an IFB church and culture and all that you describe. As a wife and mother, the church ladies made legalism, dress code, and etc. look very holy and right.

7 yrs later, we move to a rural Westerm state where there was no IFB church at all in a 50+ mile range. So we took a daring step to attend a local Bible church. Boy were our eyes and hearts opened to our once KJV-only, strict ideals of a Godly life! We were opened up to a world of other Christians (imagine that!), who were not hindered by all the IFB oddities. We saw for the first time in 7 years what real grace, love and joy in the Lord looks like! We realized we can sing praise and worship songs and hymns in the same service and still be OK!!

Move forward about 14 more years. We are still out west and about 2 yrs ago now, we move closer to larger town. This time we tried to go back to an IFB church and drove 45 miles to attend one in a larger town. 10 months later we realized we aren’t as IFB as we use to be! God had opened our eyes, grew our hearts and we then saw how actually depressing, small minded and small world this IFB church is.

We now attend for the last 2 years a non-denominational community church where God is passionately preached and worship is so real that it just brings tears of joy to my eyes! 🙂 The people are very kind, loving, REAL, and have a zeal for life we’ve not really seen in most IFB churches we attended.

My question is… is this normal to swing so far away from the IFB ways? Are there more ex-IFB attenders seeing what I’m seeing and you have seen? I feel we are all saved by grace, and we’re just filthy rags in God’s eyes, but through His grace and love we are HIS, and I no longer feel pressured to have more children because that’s what other IFB ladies do. Or pressured to wear skirts all the time, etc…. I think you get the picture.

We are pondering going to a revival in the IFB church we left on good standing, but that now has a new pastor. The evangelist is ——— ———–. We would like to attend because we sometimes miss that “good old fashioned” preaching like when my husband got saved. Do you know of this evangelist? Is he a moderate IFB or from the “I will not be moved at all” type? LOL

Also I might add, expository style preaching, verse by verse is where it’s at!! Our pastor we have now is awesome. We don’t miss the topical style preaching. I’ve always felt it was lacking a good Bible base, and has too much of pastor talk or shout.

Well, thanks for your input, like I said, you took the words out of my mouth! I do sometimes feel guilty for us moving on to a non-denominational church, but God is putting peace in me as the years go by.

Peace and God bless!

Part of my reply to her was:

Hi ——.

Thanks for your note. You are not alone. So many have traveled the same road and learned the same truth. Not all IFB churches are bad, but so many just miss out on a wider world of God’s grace and goodness. That isn’t to say there aren’t problem churches that aren’t IFB. Not just anything goes, mind you. But there are so many sincere, godly churches that just don’t do church by IFB rules.

I haven’t heard of Evangelist ——— …. There can be good preaching, but so much is shallow and emotional. And IFB churches are so focused now (more than ever) on keeping people in the fold. As long as you know what you’re getting into, it wouldn’t hurt to attend one night. But that is up to you and your husband and how God directs you.

Enjoy the freedom in Christ. I loved your story. From time to time, I like to share stories like this on my blog with personal names and details removed. If you were interested in letting me share it, I would. But I never do so without permission. I’ve had literally hundreds contact me and thank me for what I’m doing or share part of their story like you did – so know that you are not alone.

Either way, God bless you and yours. Glad you stumbled across my blog.

In Christ,

Bob Hayton
FundamentallyReformed.com

She replied, giving me permission to share this with my readers. Here is part of her reply.

Thanks for writing back so quick. You are welcome to post my story — it is the shortened version. 🙂

I do believe it took the straightforward, hard evangelist-style preaching to get my husband’s attention, short of a tallking donkey. 🙂 Tthe IFB church was his first real introduction to church, so it is near and dear to his heart….

3 of our 5 kids have prayed with Dad to accept Christ as their Savior. The 2 youngest are too young to understand, but they will not know the stressful lifestyle of the IFB church upbringing. Instead they will learn how to have a life in Christ full of grace and a good biblical world view.

Have a great day~

An Accurate Assessment of Christian Fundamentalism

~ Bob Hayton ~ 15 Comments

I came across an excellent article written by Steve Whigham, a graduate of BJU (apparently) and former administrater/faculty member of Northland International University, now working for World Magazine. [HT: Sharper Iron] His thoughts come with the recent controversy at Northland where the university board fired and then subsequently re-hired Matt Olson as president. Steve points out what others have mentioned, that the controversy was precipitated primarily by Northland’s change in its music. Whether or not that charge (that music is what the controversy at Northland is most about) is correct, Whigham’s rehashing of the history of fundamentalism is worth reading. I have excerpted some of the good parts here, but encourage you to read the whole thing.

This brouhaha about Northland has served to remind me of my reasons for not being a part of the fundamentalist movement. As Whigham points out, the original fundamentalists, historic fundamentalism if you will, prized certain fundamental points of doctrine as worth unifying around and defending. The fundamentalist movement today is prizing doctrines that are not truly fundamental — such as one musical style over another, and unifying around and defending these sub-fundamental doctrines. This is something I don’t see as healthy or helpful. Some of the sub-fundamentals that are being prized may well be good and grand in themselves. But the essence of what fundamentalism entails — prioritizing and defending cardinal truths of the gospel — this essence is lost when something less than the gospel becomes the main thing. I tried to say something to this effect years ago in my post, “Minimizing the Gospel through Excessive Separation.”

Here is the except from Whigham’s article, which you should bookmark as a helpful summary of the history and problem of today’s Christian fundamentalism.

In the late 1960’s and following, Fundamentalism mobilized its arsenal to a new battle front: sheltering the Christian faith from the worldly influences of an American culture run amok. Drugs, sex, and rock-and-roll were the targets… As it relates to practical Christian living, for many fundamentalists the mantra became, “It’s better to be safe than sorry.” So, many preachers began to wage campaigns against certain “worldly” behaviors and drew bold lines between the world and the fundamentalist norm. Women’s dress (skirts only, and must cover the knee) must be modest, “mixed” bathing (allowing girls and boys to swim together at the beach or pool) should not be allowed in order to protect each other from youthful lusts, men’s hair length (shouldn’t be over the ear), listening to rock music, smoking, holding hands for unmarried couples, and a host more, became not only expected behaviors within Fundamentalism, but was also touted as clear biblical mandates….

By the end of the 1980’s, the fight against modernism and German higher
criticism appeared to be over, but the fighting spirit of the movement continued… The battle lines were no longer being fought over the core doctrines of the faith (as was true in the early years) but rather over acceptable behaviors for a fundamentalist. The battles were no longer waged over theology, but over practical Christian living.

Today, there’s a new generation rising up within Fundamentalism which has little to no connection to the historical roots of the movement. These young millennials see a community led by perpetually angry leaders obsessed and divided over issues that have little to do with the more important expressions of Christian doctrine. What they perceive instead is a movement that is more about arbitrary command and control tactics to subdue behavior than about Christ’s core intentions for mankind. It’s a battle that appears to them as having shifted away from morals to mores. Many younger members of fundamentalist communities are no longer seeing “the Fundamentalist Cause” as worth fighting for and are choosing to leave the community for less rancorous pastures. What Fundamentalism is currently experiencing is, with a few exceptions, a decline in church attendance, a drop in fundamentalist school enrollment, and even a sharp reduction in the number of fundamentalist pastors and missionaries being sent out.

Fundamentalism is shrinking quickly and losing its next generation. As Fundamentalism shrinks, the remaining voices in the movement are becoming more shrill. In their sermons and blogposts you can sense the desperation….

In the beginning, the issues Fundamentalism chose to rally around united a community. They united because: (1) the issues were authentic fundamentals and (2) unity was still valued as a vital doctrine of the faith. By today’s use of slash-and-burn rhetoric against anyone with a different take on a point of Christian liberty, unity has been devalued. In order to protect the enclave, Christ’s call for unity has been stripped of all its moral weight. Currently, the issues most “surviving fundamentalists” are now opting to rally around divide rather than unite. And as long as their current fields of battle remain the same, I cannot see the end of the shrinking anytime soon….

Clarifying My Thoughts on Music

~ Bob Hayton

My most recent post on music has a provocative title: “Superior Affections Yet a Christ-less Conception of Worship.” And someone over at Sharper Iron sought clarification (in the comment thread here) as to whether I was really implying that a traditional stance on music is inherently legalistic.

I wanted to share my clarification here for my readers’ benefit.

Clarification

I quoted Bixby for the “Christ-less” remark in my post. I do think discussing the music issue and having ordinate affections and all, would be healthy for evangelicalism as a whole. The criticism is valid that often there is not much thought given to where we are with music and worship.

That being said, there is a danger to have such an emphasis on form that it obscures the gospel. I do think that is a danger as well.

Berating people and badgering people into having a certain music style is not healthy. Bixby was saying as much. Is RAM doing that, or some RAM type people? I am not sure. But that is not healthy if/when it occurs.

Additionally, having pride in our worship or thinking we are superior because of it would be a gospel problem. Legalism is in the heart so this is a danger that can exist. Maligning others and impugning them with ill motives, which is how the public statements often sound from RAM / traditional music emphasizing fundamentalists when they speak of those who use the other music. It goes back to Chuck Phelps’ letter and the anonymous hit piece on NIU that RAM posted. Those are examples of judging motives and assuming the worst of those who utilize contemporary styled music in worship.

To quote from my post which was referring to Bixby’s:

If you have preferred traditional music, his post will help you examine your own heart. It will also show how this stance toward the worship wars can so easily turn into a pharisaicalism that looks down on others and in turn, becomes an empty shell of externally focused religion.

The point is that one can have what is considered “superior affections” and yet have a Christ-less conception of worship – a legalistic attitude. I am not claiming that RAM has this. I think Bixby brings out some good points and may overstate his case some, but in my experience it is usually the followers who take what someone says and run with it to an extreme. So I bet there are real examples behind the excesses Bixby chronicles and denounces in his post.

Hopefully that explains things. Discussing the role of affections and the role of music can be a healthy thing for the evangelical church. Often people just assume and do, rather than carefully consider. The careful considering I have done on the issue has made me a better worshiper and I think a greater influence in evangelicalism by fundamentalists in general – on lots of things, would be a good thing.

Then some follow up questions were asked and I thought I’d share my response to those here as well. I don’t want to be misunderstood and this is an important conversation – even if it is difficult not to talk past one another and be misunderstood in our zeal for our particular musical position.

Are you saying that if you have a “standard” for worship action (never mind whose for a minute), you are maintaining a “legalistic” and “Christ-less” concept of worship? I’m not trying to put words in your mouth, but it seems like that’s where you are going.

I am not saying a “standard” makes one legalistic. A standard can be so exalted and gloried in that we rejoice that we aren’t like the publican who doesn’t adopt our standard. That is when it becomes legalistic. How one lifts up and rallies around and promotes the said standard can go a long way to promoting or encouraging the legalistic response to it. But just having a standard or drawing a line at some point, doesn’t mean that legalism will be the inevitable result.

However, wouldn’t you have to say, whether you have thought through it or not, that you have some “standard” of worship, even among those who are trying to have Christian worship; where in your conscience you say “this can be used to bring honor to God”, or “this doesn’t honor the Lord”, or “it doesn’t do anything for me” or however you want to say it.

Yes there is a standard, I would think, at our church. The line isn’t extremely clear but pastoral direction would be given and has been given in shaping the musical philosophy at our church and others I’ve been to in the past.

How do you think a less conservative standard of worship affects the unsaved? Those who have been saved out of a background of extreme love of the world and sin?

Our worship isn’t about the unsaved. I hope they would encounter a reverence and exultation in Jesus when they see our worship however. As for those saved out of a background of “extreme” love of the world and sin? Our worship is so different from what they are used to when it comes to sensual lyrics, sensual musical performance, stage lights, etc., that I don’t think there is a strong enough correlation in their mind.

Today, if you go to the dentist, go to a shopping mall, eat at Wendys, attend a ball game, go to a bowling alley, pop music and a syncopated beat is everywhere. It is the air we breathe. And for that reason, I contend, that it has become just a normal part of the culture. Heavily sensual beat, gyrating dance, intense and very loud music – that is part of the club scene and has characteristics quite different from what you hear in the doctor’s waiting room.

All of that means is that the average Joe who comes to hear our syncopated worship songs, won’t think anything inherently strange or sinful is happening. It is the music expression he is used to – his language. The lyrics and God-ward direction from the worship leader(s) will be what is new, and powerful, and attractive. And he’ll also encounter older hymns, and choral pieces that are different to his average experience that also communicate the depth of church history and the grandeur of worshiping a holy God.

What if someone in your worship team wants to perform secular music in secular venues as well?

Certain kinds of secular music don’t necessarily have to be seen as immoral. But it would depend on the type, the context, etc. It hasn’t come up in churches I’m aware of, or a part of. But consideration would be given for sure. Do we have to have a rule book which says you can’t do X, Y and Z outside of Sunday’s serivce and Saturday’s practice times, in order to be a faithful church? How about we disciple people and respond in biblical wisdom to situations as they arise?

Feel free to jump into the conversation in the comments below, or over at Sharper Iron.