29 Responses to “Calvinism”

1. Mrs. E. Childers says:

   February 23, 2009 at 8:59 pm

   God is all powerful and He alone is sovereign in bringing those who He has chosen to be His people to Himself. Praise God your eyes and heart have been open to the Reformed Theology. This is actually the Pauline Gospel. Get yourself a Geneva Study Bible and you will grow even more in the Faith of our Fathers.

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2. henry says:

   March 24, 2009 at 9:50 pm

   John 17:2-3 ” As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
   And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. ”

   It is Christ’s own holy words says that it is He and He alone has the Sovereign power to give eternal life ” as many as thou hast given Him”! HE did NOT say as many by their free will come to Him. Jesus says that eternal life is to know the true God who has DRAW them to CHrist, all who has not been given to Christ by the Father not only do not have eternal life, but will clime some other way to earn it!

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3. fundyreformed says:

   March 25, 2009 at 2:31 pm

   I’m with you Henry. Thanks for the comment.

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4. 4point Calvinist (TUIP)//dispensationalist says:

   April 14, 2009 at 7:34 pm

   Great website! I have to confess, I find the fact that you’ve abandoned dispensationalism altogether a little troubling. I still have quite a bit more research to do on the issue. I will use this webpage as a resource for further research. Thanks for your candidness. I cannot imagine coming out of the movement you did. It must have cost you many many friendships.

   Anyway, There is quite a large chunk of Fundamentalism (such as I consider myself.) who aren’t KJV only and are quite a bit less legalistic and more Calvinistic, though I could not be a pure reformed theologan just because of the many distinctions between Israel and the church. I would be very interested to hear your view on this matter.

   Your brother in Christ,

   Marshall

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5. 4point Calvinist (TUIP)//dispensationalist says:

   April 14, 2009 at 7:39 pm

   One other thing: Are you a five point Calvinist? What about limited atonement? This teaching is clearly refuted in scripture: “for God so loved the WORLD that he gave his only son that WHOEVER believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.

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6. Bob Hayton says:

   April 15, 2009 at 4:50 pm

   Marshall,

   Thanks for your kind comments, I hope this site will bless you.

   Re: dispensationalism, this series of posts will help you I think: Understanding the Land Promise. Also just select Dispensationalism under my categories section on my blog’s sidebar (Theology / Dispensationalism or Theology / Redemptive HIstorical Hermeneutics).

   About Limited Atonement. I’m satisfied with that point, but I have explored other options such as 4 point Calvinism or 4.5 point Calvinism. I think there is less clarity on that point. This reminds me to finish the series I started this year called Understanding Limited Atonement. I think you are misunderstanding what it is about.

   Whoever actually does believe will be saved, I agree with that. Jesus died to provide a bona fide offer of salvation for every person in the world, I agree with that. But Jesus did more than offer salvation in his death, he actually saved a people. It was not potential salvation but actual salvation. John 10 has Jesus saying he lays down his life for the sheep. Then he defines a group of people (the Pharisees opposing him) as not being his sheep. He specifically says, something to the effect, you do not believe because you are not of my sheep. (10:25 or 26 I think). Elsewhere, Jesus is said to have died in order to purify his bride and to purchase his church. He dies in a special way for them more so than for others.

   Hope that helps some. You can also click on Links, and then Recommended Articles, and click on the link to John Piper’s short booklet on Calvinism, which really explains this point from a Biblical perspective well.

   Blessings in Christ,

   Bob Hayton

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7. 4 point says:

   April 15, 2009 at 8:25 pm

   Thanks. I know you are educated enough to be familiar with that and many other verses and I was not trying to suggest you had not considered these things.

   I agree with you that the elect were chosen from the beginning. I also agree that no one comes unless they are called. These things are clearly scriptural. I do also believe free will to be scriptural and while it does not make a whole lot of sense to my finite brain. I have to trust God’s word on this one.

   I’ll stick with my 4 points!

   Thanks for your quick response.

   In Christ,

   Marshall

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8. Nancy says:

   April 29, 2009 at 9:12 am

   Thanks Joe, excellently stated.!

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9. 4 pointer says:

   April 29, 2009 at 11:36 am

   Thanks for your explanation of the Greek. Hinah, however can mean that or so that, or for this reason. In this case, a simple “that” is a much smoother translation.

   The other point about the “whoever believes” is valid and well put. I should’ve done my homework before just throwing that out there.

   I agree with you of course that only those who believe will be saved.

   It still says in this verse though, that because God loved the “world” He gave His Son. His blood is sufficient for all, but affective only for the elect.

   Also, God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to salvation.

   These truths don’t seem to mesh, but I believe scripture teaches both. God’s ways are not my ways!

   Thanks for your astute responses. I’ll try to be a little more scholarly and thoughtful in my future posts.

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10. Chris Cole says:

    April 29, 2009 at 3:44 pm

    “Limited atonement” is a bit of a misnomer, constructed to provide the “L” in the acronym. “Particular or definite atonement” better represents the doctrine. The propitiation in Christ is FULLY sufficient to cover the sins of the elect sinner.

    The problem with the opposing view is that universal atonement means either that everyone is redeemed, or that those in Hell had their sins atoned for, but that atonement was INSUFFICIENT to save them. To go to heaven, one must add something to the blood of Christ to be saved. Jesus doesn’t save His people; it is whatever they add, whether works, or sincerity, or the work of believing. That should be anathema to any Bible-believing Christian.

    Would you say that we are justified by faith, such that a believer’s faith is added to Jesus’ blood to save him? I happened to read a sermon by the Covenanter Robert Traill from 1692, in which he addresses that very point: “The plain old Protestant doctrine is that the place of faith in justification is only that of a hand or instrument, receiving the righteousness of Christ, for which only we are justified. So that, though great scholars do often confound themselves and others, in their disputations about faith’s justifying a sinner, every poor plain believer hath the marrow of this mystery feeding his heart; and he can readily tell you, that to be justified faith is to be justified by Christ’s righteousness, apprehended by faith.”

    And as Paul tells us, even the very faith with which we respond to God is given us by faith (Eph. 2:8), and carried through by that same God (Ph. 1:6).

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11. Marc says:

    May 15, 2009 at 1:42 am

    Hi,

    I have been a self-confessed Calvinist for some time now, and have recently taken a journey to discover what both sides of the argument have to say on the issue of election (essentially Calvinism vs. Arminianism) to be clear on my own position. What it has done is open my eyes to the validity of some of the Arminian truths.

    One of the things that I have seen within Calvinism that I would like your comment on, is the idea of eternal security (“once saved, always saved”). Do you believe that Calvinism provides assurance for those who believe that they will definitely be saved at the end?

    The reason why I have come to doubt this is because the Calvinist position (as I understand it) seems to say that it is possible to “lose your salvation.” What this means though is that there was never a genuine faith to begin with. I can accept this. But what about those who will find themselves in this position in the future, who currently believe that they are saved, yet do not realise their faith is not genuine? Can we provide anyone with a certainty that they are saved and will be saved when they might actually fall away, showing that their faith was not genuine in the first place?

    Perhaps a secondary question is, what does genuine faith look like, and is it possible for someone to have what looks like genuine faith, but is in fact not?

    Any comments would be helpful for me to clarify this for myself. Thanks!

    -Marc

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    • Jorge says:

      December 15, 2009 at 7:36 pm

      Marc, I think you are confussing the doctrine of eternal secury (saved, always saved or perseverance of the saints) with the assurance of salvation. The former is a doctrinal issue (whether salvation can be lost or not) while the latter is the objective/subjective assurance a person has that s/he belongs to Christ.

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12. Chris Cole says:

    May 17, 2009 at 2:33 pm

    The assurance of grace was an important subject to the Reformers, and the Westminster Confession of Faith devotes a whole chapter to just that subject, chapter XVII. The second half of the first section (with proof texts) reads, “Such as truly believe in the Lord Jesus, and love Him in sincerity, endeavoring to walk in all good conscience before Him, may, in this life, be certainly assured that they are in the state of grace (I Jn 1:3; 3:14, 18-19, 21, 24; 5:13), and may rejoice in the hope of the glory of God, which hope shall never make them ashamed (Ro. 5:2, 5).”

    II Pet. 1:10a says, “Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to make your calling and election sure…” That obviously implies that assurance is possible. It just takes work. And I John contains four ways of knowing assurance, which is why so much of it was included in the WCF passage above.

    Verse 2:3, “By this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments.” Same concept in verses 24 and 29. Verse 3: 10, “By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.” Again, verse 24, and 5:2ff. So, the delight in doing righteousness, though not unfailingly, of course, is evidence that one is truly in Christ.

    3:14a, “We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brothers.” Also 4:7. So, the true believer loves his fellow Christians. This pillar should especially strike at the heart of hypocrites. I’m sure that we have all spoken to someone who claimed that he was perfectly able to be spiritual without having to go to church. The Bible says not so!

    3:19-21, “By this we shall know that we are of the truth and reassure our heart before him; for whenever our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and he knows everything. Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God.” A clear conscience testifies to God’s washing of our hearts.

    4:13, “By this we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit.” See also Rom. 8:9, II Cor. 1:22, and Eph. 4:30. But especially look at Rom. 8:16, “The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are the children of God.” The believer experiences the indwelling of The Holy Spirit, part of whose work is to give internal witness to our standing with God.

    So, we have the two outward evidences of righteousness in life and love for the brethren, and the two inward evidences of a clear conscience and the witness of the Holy Spirit.

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13. Marc says:

    May 22, 2009 at 4:34 am

    Hi guys,

    Thanks for your responses. It has certainly helped to clarify some of my thinking. Bob – thanks for the links, I will check out your other material. Chris – thanks for your insight into the scriptures. Will take a little while to chew over the material and hopefully come to some sort of a conclusion. Thanks for your time.

    Regards
    -Marc

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14. omongos ruel says:

    June 4, 2009 at 12:54 am

    free grace alone you reciv salvation through faith given also to you by the God of grace

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15. fundyreformed says:

    February 24, 2009 at 8:56 pm

    Thanks for the encouragement.

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16. Joe says:

    April 29, 2009 at 8:30 am

    Hey, wonderful website! I can relate with alot of your testimony. I was also raised KJVO and very Arminian in my not-so-well-thought out soteriology.

    Thank God he saved me from those errors!

    As for Limited Atonement, if you would allow me to respond to 4 pointer.

    If you’ll take a closer look at John 3:16, it in fact is one of the strongest proof-texts for Limited Atonement.

    “For God so loved the world He gave His only begotten Son so that whoever believes in Him will not perish..’

    First, if you will look at the definition of the Greek word “that”(hinah) in a Greek Concordance (such as Strongs), you will notice that it means “for this purpose”. It is a word that denotes purpose.

    With that knowledge, read the verse again .

    “..he gave His only begotten Son for the purpose of…whoever believes in Him will not perish..”

    Therefore, according to John 3:16, the purpose for Christ coming into the world was to save “whoever believes” or more literally “All the believers”.

    Limited Atonement holds that Christ came to save believers only (the elect), and that’s exactly what John 3:16 says

    Also, you said something along the lines of “Limited Atonement is not true because John 3:16 says WHOEVER believes, and you emphasized the word “whoever” and put it in all caps.

    However, if you understood the Greek construction of this verse, you might have capitalized and emphasized both the word “WHOEVER” and “BELIEVES”.

    Why? Because in the Greek there is no such thing as the word “whosoever”. Yes, that’s correct. There is no such word as ‘whosoever” (or “whoever”) in the Greek. Instead, the phrase “whoever believes” is a translation of a phrase in Greek: “pas ho pisteuwn”. Which literally means “all the believers”.

    Therefore, there is no point in emphasizing the word “WHOSOEVER”, because it’s only a fraction of the phrase that exists. Christ didn’t come into the world to save “WHOSOEVER”, he came into the world to save “WHOSOEVER BELIEVES”, and them only. Hence, He came for particular people, not all people.

    He did not come into the world to save all who would potentially believe, but instead, all who would specifically believe.

    Hope this helps! My 2c.

    God bless!

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17. pavel says:

    May 17, 2009 at 10:35 am

    I belive, our free will is very, very limited and only God has REAL free will. Otherwise, it sounds very humanistic and not biblical at all.

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18. PAVEL says:

    June 14, 2009 at 6:37 pm

    the bible says much more about slavery than freedom
    Joh 8:31 Jesus therefore said to the Jews who believed him, If ye abide in my word, ye are truly my disciples;
    Joh 8:32 and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free.
    Joh 8:33 They answered him, We are Abraham’s seed, and have never been under bondage to any one; how sayest thou, Ye shall become free?
    Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say to you, Every one that practices sin is the bondman of sin.

    first, Jesus said it to “JEWS WHO BELIEVED IN HIM.” we would say haliluya! because they believed in him… they were saved! But, the reality is more dramatic was needed. Jesus says first in verse 31: IF YOU ABIDE IN MY WORD!
    After that, being my disciples, you shall know the truth
    And then, the truth shall set you free.
    THERE IS NO FREE WILL IN THE FIRST PLACE we are only free once we know the truth!
    By nature, we are free to sin, because we are descendants of Adam and in him all sinned! By the nature, we are not slaves to righteousness and only God’s grace quickens us, lifts us up, cleanses us, holds us, leads us… GOD IS ALL TO US! TO HIM BE GLORY FOREVER!

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19. fundyreformed says:

    April 29, 2009 at 9:23 am

    Great 2 cents! Thanks for dropping by.

    Another point on WHOEVER is this. In English, whoever is a relative
    pronoun. Relative to some other element in the sentence. WHOEVER believes
    means all the ones who do believe. The KJV says whosoever, and I dont’
    think we Calvinists would disagree with the idea that seems implied to many
    from “whosoever” which is this: whoever wants to believe can believe. We
    don’t deny that. We just say everyone who wants to and does believe, those
    are the ones who won’t perish, the ones who Jesus died for. Jesus knows who
    they are, we don’t.

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20. omongos ruel says:

    June 4, 2009 at 12:48 am

    efesians 2 how you are going to believe if you are dead to your sins porus for dead ROCK

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21. fundyreformed says:

    May 15, 2009 at 9:33 am

    Marc,

    I deal with this issue in my posts under the category of perseverance. I also have a post directly on the issue of Once Saved, Always Saved.

    Suffice it to see that a responsible wesleyan view is pretty close to Calvinism on this point, except they would say apostasy actually happens, and Calvinists say true faith never actually was present and the person never actually was elect, but for all practical purposes from a human perspective the individual apostasized. I think the Calvinist view better handles other texts on election and eternal security of the elect than wesleyans and arminians do. But I respect how they could conclude differently than I do on this point.

    As for certainty, I take people to First John. Our certainty comes from the objective Gospel and the subjective experience of the work of the Spirit in our lives. We can’t give people more certainty than the New Testament offers.

    My pastor, John Piper talks of not being assured that he will wake up the next day still a Christian. He keeps under his body to bring it in subjection and takes the Christian fight seriously. I think this is a good approach.

    Practically, we should direct people to focus on Christ not be morbidly introspective. We need to love him and become like him, but it is only by His Grace we are accepted and will be saved. Doubters should trust and cling to Christ. That attitude will change them and evidence the sincerity of their faith. That is all we can do.

    Hope this helps,

    Blessings in Christ,

    Bob

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22. Ben Mordecai says:

    June 2, 2009 at 11:06 am

    1 Peter 1
    3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, 5 who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 6 In this you rejoice, though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been grieved by various trials, 7 so that the tested genuineness of your faith—more precious than gold that perishes though it is tested by fire—may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ. 8 Though you have not seen him, you love him. Though you do not now see him, you believe in him and rejoice with joy that is inexpressible and filled with glory, 9 obtaining the outcome of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

    Especially v4-5

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23. fundyreformed says:

    May 22, 2009 at 12:18 pm

    Thanks, Marc. Blessings to you.

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24. omongos ruel says:

    June 4, 2009 at 12:46 am

    you are theologically naive and un inform so to say bout bible doctrines bro

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25. omongos ruel says:

    June 4, 2009 at 12:51 am

    christ died for all but effective only for the elect,bout you may be you are not the elect hehehe

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26. PAVEL says:

    June 13, 2009 at 10:19 am

    whoever BELIEVES… THAT MEANS IN CHRIST – GOD’S GIFT

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27. Chris Cole says:

    June 4, 2009 at 5:56 am

    You are mistaken, as well, about Reformed theology. Please read my explanation of particular atonement further down.

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28. PAVEL says:

    June 13, 2009 at 10:33 am

    THANK YOU BOB! GOD BLESS!

    Reply