Comments on: God Gave Wine: What the Bible Says about Alcohol by Kenneth Gentry

By: fundyreformed

fundyreformed — Mon, 17 Aug 2009 14:37:00 +0000

Gary,

That’s a year ago. 8/5/08.

I have seen what he’s been posting about. I frankly don’t go over to his blog much, because I find it isn’t helpful to me. We’ve debated all the issues at length on my blog, and he’s never budged an inch.

I can easily lose focus if I pay too much attention on him. I need to do my thing and focus on my walk with God, etc.

My arguments for drinking wine haven’t been dealt with reasonably yet. Don Johnson is bringing up reasonable points that aren’t dealt with.

My biggest issue is the “merry heart” idea is Scripturally connected with the alcoholic properties of wine. We are to drink wine with a merry heart, Scripture describes wine as that which gladdens the heart, and merry hearts are connected contextually with drunken fools. Nabal’s heart was merry with wine. So what are we to think of wine making a heart merry? Obviously it has to do with the alcoholic properties. An excess of the merriness associated with wine produces drunkenness. Being glad about a harvest and about refreshment of thirst is not what Scripture is talking about with “a merry heart”. You can wish it away if you want, as Brandenburg does, but that doesn’t cut it. It’s not handling Scripture well.

I’m for people who don’t drink. There are many good reasons not to, especially in our day and age. But I can’t dismiss the drink flippantly when Scripture goes out of its way to praise it, specifically noting its pleasure-inducing effects.

Thanks for dropping by,

In Christ,

Bob

By: Gary

Gary — Sun, 16 Aug 2009 03:12:57 +0000

Bob,

It is interesting that Kent started his own post on wine on his What is Truth blog. He stopped talking to you on the 5th and started his own on the 7th. I posted over there that I was curious about 1 Timothy 3:8 which references deacons to not drink “much wine” and asked if it was telling them to drink much grape juice. It will be interesting to see his response.

By: More Yayin Please! | The Art of Didasko

More Yayin Please! | The Art of Didasko — Sat, 15 Aug 2009 01:27:57 +0000

[...] Brother Bob presents a positive review of the book God Gave Wine by Kenneth Gentry. The comments get heated. [...]

By: fundyreformed

fundyreformed — Sat, 02 May 2009 03:20:38 +0000

Wes you bring up some good points. On this particular issue, from what I’ve heard pot affects your mind directly and makes you lose control and sense. It more directly alters consciousness than does alcohol enjoyed in moderation. Also Rom. 13, 1 Pet. 2 and other passages emphasize our duty to submit to the laws of the land, and this applies both with how we drink alcohol and how we do or do not use pot. I’ve never tried pot, and don’t plan on it, just for the record. Still care is required in dealing with people on this issue, but i hope they would have a heart to hear what Scriptural principles would apply to their situation. Again the command against drunkenness is stated because of the problem of losing control (Eph. 5:18), so with pot causing the same thing (loss of control), it would seem that would apply here.

By: wes

wes — Sat, 02 May 2009 02:38:08 +0000

I have several friends who I believe are “growing christians” who seem pretty wise and perceptive when it comes to things , who smoke pot. I used to demonize these people in my mind when I was isolated from them and had no friends who participated in that type of behavior but now that I am having to converse and reason from scripture with them it makes it harder for me to discredit them right off the bat. the only problem they see is that it is “legal” yet. But i guess i am making this post to say that I believe we need to handle things with much grace and not be so quick to automatically assume that there couldn’t possibly be a better and “more right” way to view a certain situation or issue. there are some things that are revealed….plain and simple: Jesus is God; Gave his righteousness and took my sin and penalty. But things involving “holiness” and how to be a Christian in a strange,dark, and complex world (i.e. what it means to not be worldly) is kinda a different animal. that’s why grace, and patience seems like something that is mentioned so much in reference to dealing with other christians. we need to be carefull before being so sure of ourselves about “secondary” things. it’s pretty dangerous.

By: Proverbs 23 And a Universal Prohibition of Alcohol « Fundamentally Reformed

Proverbs 23 And a Universal Prohibition of Alcohol « Fundamentally Reformed — Mon, 11 Aug 2008 03:13:47 +0000

[...] post is a second response to some arguments put forth in the comments of my recent review of Kenneth Gentry’s book God Gave Wine: What the Bible Says about Alcohol. It has been [...]

By: Isaiah 16:10 and the Two-Wine Theory « Fundamentally Reformed

Isaiah 16:10 and the Two-Wine Theory « Fundamentally Reformed — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 18:51:58 +0000

[...] I’ve already argued extensively that the Bible condones the moderate use of alcohol. In my recent review of Kenneth Gentry’s God Gave Wine, there was a bit of a debate in the comments. I had loaned [...]

By: Les Prouty

Les Prouty — Wed, 06 Aug 2008 18:52:10 +0000

Bob, I don’t have my Hebrew OT with me here but I am sure you are correct. I read the passages in the ESV and I can only conclude that Rayburn was referring to it as being pressed out for drinking immediately, where the Is. passage would make sense in its context. i.e. it was being pressed out to be drunk in the usual sense of wine (allowed to ferment). In other words, if I was a wine maker and said I was going to make some wine, I could rightly say that as I was making wine as I pressed out the “juice.”

Anyway…

By: Seth McBee

Seth McBee — Wed, 06 Aug 2008 18:27:38 +0000

Nancy.
I have done some study on the Nazirite vow and have taught on it. The purpose for us today on the vow is not to adhere to it, but to look to it and see the grace found in the cross.

The three things that the Nazirite could not do was:

1. Drink wine or eat grapes/raisens
2. Cut their hair
3. Touch a dead body

They did this to show their devotion to the Lord.

I don’t want to go into my entire sermon on this, but the purpose that we in the NT age look to the Nazirite vow is NOT to copy it, but to look to it and find that Christ has fulfilled the Nazirite Vow. We don’t do these things to get close to God, but we now look to Christ.

And yes, if we want to take any part of this vow and require it for today, then we must take the whole vow…not cutting hair, not eating grapes, and not even touching any type of dead body.

What I find interesting for the support of the abstinance and the nazirite vow is that many focus only on wine and they miss the purpose of how this vow is profitable for us today (2 Tim 3:16,17) and that is, again, to point to the grace found in Christ, not works.

By: fundyreformed

fundyreformed — Wed, 06 Aug 2008 17:25:26 +0000

Les,

Robert’s wrong on one point: “In Gen. 40:11 we read of drinking the juice that had just been pressed from the grapes, but that juice is never called “wine” in the Bible.”

It is called wine in Is. 16:10 and another passage in Jeremiah. Gentry explains these as poetic expressions, and brings other Biblical poetic examples to bear on these cases.

But there are places where it is clear that alcoholic wine is in view and it is favorably mentioned.

Nancy,

In both cases the abstinence is voluntary not compulsory. And with the Nazarite vow, it is temporary.

Thanks all for the interaction.