Comments on: Religious Bigotry? Mike Huckabee, Mormonism and The New York Times http://www.fundamentallyreformed.com/2007/12/14/religious-bigotry-mike-huckabee-mormonism-and-the-new-york-times/ Reforming Fundamentalism (IFB) through Reformed Theology Mon, 15 Mar 2010 04:24:27 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: hkyson http://www.fundamentallyreformed.com/2007/12/14/religious-bigotry-mike-huckabee-mormonism-and-the-new-york-times/comment-page-1/#comment-7968 hkyson Thu, 25 Jun 2009 06:33:46 +0000 http://fundyreformed.wordpress.com/2007/12/14/religious-bigotry-mike-huckabee-mormonism-and-the-new-york-times/#comment-7968 Here is the English version of an article on science and Mormonism that I published awhile ago in my blog "Interlingua multilingue": .............................................. Science and the Mormons The Mormons are a religious sect that emerged from Christianity in the United States in the Nineteenth Century. They added to the Bible their own scripture, the Book of Mormon, translated by Joseph Smith from an original text in a language he called Reformed Egyptian. According to the mythology of the Mormons, in 1827 the angel Moroni gave Smith these texts, which were engraved on golden tables. Smith could understand them without learning their language through the divine magic of two special lenses that he used to read them while he translated them. Smith and his followers were persecuted by traditional Christians, who forced them to travel slowly and with great sacrifices until they reached what is now Utah, where their descendants dominate the religious and social life of this American state. According to the Mormons, the Indians of the Americas came from Egypt more than 2,000 (two thousand) years ago. They used this myth to convert many Indians to their religion. “We were taught that all the blessings of our Hebrew ancestors made us a special people,” said Jose a Loyaza, a lawyer in Salt Lake City, the capital of Utah. “And this identity gave us a sense of transcendental affiliation, a special identity with God.” But Loyaza gradually learned that there was another outrageous irony to his faith. He rejected his religion after learning that evidence provided by comparative DNA studies between American Indians and Asians conclusively proved that the first humans that migrated to the Americas came not from the Middle East but from Asia. For the Mormons this genetic confirmation of the origin of the Indians in the Americas is a fundamental collision of science against religion. It is in direct conflict with the Book of Mormon, which, according to their religion, is a completely error-free historical work that must be interpreted literally. The Book of Mormon is also fundamentally racist. It narrates that a tribe of Hebrews from Jeruselem went to the Americas in 600 B.C. and split up into two groups, the Nephites and the Lamanites. The Nephites carried the “true” religion to the new world and were in constant conflict with the Lamanites, who practiced idolatry. The Nephites were white (in 1980 the Mormons changed the word to “pure”), and the Lamanites received from God “The curse of blackness.” The Book of Mormon also narrates that in 385 A.D. the Lamanites exterminated all the other Hebrews and became the principal ancestors of the American Indians. But the Mormons insist that if the Lamanites returned to the “true” religion (Mormonism, quite naturally), their skin would eventually become white like the skin of the Nephites that their ancestors had exterminated. But despite these outrageous racist insults, many Indians and Polynesians (who also, according to the Mormons, are the descendants of the Lamanites) converted to Mormonism instead of telling the Mormons to go **** themselves. (Through some perverse mechanism in human psychology, these converts are like homosexual priests who support the Roman catholic church or other gay people who support any type of Christianity.) “The fiction that I was a Lamanite,” said Damon Kali, a lawyer in Sunnyvale, California, whose ancestors came from Polynesian islands, “was the principal reason that I converted to Mormonism.” He had been a missionary for the Mormans before he discovered that genetic evidence proved that the Lamanites were only a religious myth, and he could not continue his efforts to convert others to Mormonism. Officially the Mormon church insists that nothing in the Book of Mormon is incompatible with the genetic evidence. Some Mormons are now saying that the Levites were a small group of Hebrews that went to Central America and after many generations of marrying with the natives they met, their Hebrew DNA disappeared into the DNA of their neighbors. In 2002, officers of the church started a trial to excommunicate Thomas W. Murphy, a professor of anthropology at Edmonds Community College in Washington, an American state at the extreme northwest of the continental United States. His trial attracted a lot of attention in the American public communications media, which ridiculed the church and insisted that Murphy was the Galileo of Mormonism. The general contempt provoked by this publicity seriously embarrassed the officers of the church, and they stopped the trial. Here is the English version of an article on science and Mormonism that I published awhile ago in my blog “Interlingua multilingue”:
……………………………………….

Science and the Mormons

The Mormons are a religious sect that emerged from Christianity in the United States in the Nineteenth Century. They added to the Bible their own scripture, the Book of Mormon, translated by Joseph Smith from an original text in a language he called Reformed Egyptian. According to the mythology of the Mormons, in 1827 the angel Moroni gave Smith these texts, which were engraved on golden tables. Smith could understand them without learning their language through the divine magic of two special lenses that he used to read them while he translated them.

Smith and his followers were persecuted by traditional Christians, who forced them to travel slowly and with great sacrifices until they reached what is now Utah, where their descendants dominate the religious and social life of this American state.

According to the Mormons, the Indians of the Americas came from Egypt more than 2,000 (two thousand) years ago. They used this myth to convert many Indians to their religion. “We were taught that all the blessings of our Hebrew ancestors made us a special people,” said Jose a Loyaza, a lawyer in Salt Lake City, the capital of Utah. “And this identity gave us a sense of transcendental affiliation, a special identity with God.” But Loyaza gradually learned that there was another outrageous irony to his faith.

He rejected his religion after learning that evidence provided by comparative DNA studies between American Indians and Asians conclusively proved that the first humans that migrated to the Americas came not from the Middle East but from Asia.

For the Mormons this genetic confirmation of the origin of the Indians in the Americas is a fundamental collision of science against religion. It is in direct conflict with the Book of Mormon, which, according to their religion, is a completely error-free historical work that must be interpreted literally.

The Book of Mormon is also fundamentally racist. It narrates that a tribe of Hebrews from Jeruselem went to the Americas in 600 B.C. and split up into two groups, the Nephites and the Lamanites. The Nephites carried the “true” religion to the new world and were in constant conflict with the Lamanites, who practiced idolatry. The Nephites were white (in 1980 the Mormons changed the word to “pure”), and the Lamanites received from God “The curse of blackness.”

The Book of Mormon also narrates that in 385 A.D. the Lamanites exterminated all the other Hebrews and became the principal ancestors of the American Indians. But the Mormons insist that if the Lamanites returned to the “true” religion (Mormonism, quite naturally), their skin would eventually become white like the skin of the Nephites that their ancestors had exterminated.

But despite these outrageous racist insults, many Indians and Polynesians (who also, according to the Mormons, are the descendants of the Lamanites) converted to Mormonism instead of telling the Mormons to go **** themselves. (Through some perverse mechanism in human psychology, these converts are like homosexual priests who support the Roman catholic church or other gay people who support any type of Christianity.)

“The fiction that I was a Lamanite,” said Damon Kali, a lawyer in Sunnyvale, California, whose ancestors came from Polynesian islands, “was the principal reason that I converted to Mormonism.” He had been a missionary for the Mormans before he discovered that genetic evidence proved that the Lamanites were only a religious myth, and he could not continue his efforts to convert others to Mormonism.

Officially the Mormon church insists that nothing in the Book of Mormon is incompatible with the genetic evidence. Some Mormons are now saying that the Levites were a small group of Hebrews that went to Central America and after many generations of marrying with the natives they met, their Hebrew DNA disappeared into the DNA of their neighbors.

In 2002, officers of the church started a trial to excommunicate Thomas W. Murphy, a professor of anthropology at Edmonds Community College in Washington, an American state at the extreme northwest of the continental United States.

His trial attracted a lot of attention in the American public communications media, which ridiculed the church and insisted that Murphy was the Galileo of Mormonism. The general contempt provoked by this publicity seriously embarrassed the officers of the church, and they stopped the trial.

]]> By: Jenner http://www.fundamentallyreformed.com/2007/12/14/religious-bigotry-mike-huckabee-mormonism-and-the-new-york-times/comment-page-1/#comment-7934 Jenner Thu, 27 Dec 2007 19:21:49 +0000 http://fundyreformed.wordpress.com/2007/12/14/religious-bigotry-mike-huckabee-mormonism-and-the-new-york-times/#comment-7934 I don't think the Mormon issue is going to prevent Romney from winning the election. While there is a vocal subset of evangelical voters who tend to have more bigoted views, most Americans will likely select a candadite based on character and issues. Also, do not underestimate the LDS vote. Only 14% of Mormons live in Utah. Do not forget that Mormon pioneers settled and founded Las Vegas, Los Angeles, San Diego, San Francisco and hundreds of other western cities. the influence is still strong. The only reason they are not noticed is because evangelical and LDS values are identical and Mormons vote in line with evangelicals. I personally know of many Latter-Day Saints who are deeply offended by Huckabee's crusade (whisper and inuendo) to remind evangelicals that "Mormons are different." I would anticipate a large exodus of LDS voters from the GOP if they feel for one second that the GOP and Huckabee snubbed Romney solely because of his faith. LDS fathers do not like the idea of telling their sons that they can go to Harvard, become one of the most successful CEO's in America, even be governor of Mass., but forget about ever being President son because bigoted evangelicals will cut you off at the pass. No, I don't think LDS parents are looking forward to that conversation with their children. If you doubt the LDS population can influence the race if they separate from the GOP pack you should read the cover story from today's "USA Today" newspaper where it points out that the 3 fastest growing states since 2000 were UT, AZ, and NV, all heavily LDS states. Again, only 14% of LDS are in Utah. There are millions of LDS scattered across the country, particularly in the west. They are going to flock to vote nationwide in primaries which typically only have a small turnout of GOP activists. Here is a great post about why evangelicals should vote for Romney: http://www.evangelicalsformitt.org/why.php I don’t think the Mormon issue is going to prevent Romney from winning the election. While there is a vocal subset of evangelical voters who tend to have more bigoted views, most Americans will likely select a candadite based on character and issues.

Also, do not underestimate the LDS vote. Only 14% of Mormons live in Utah. Do not forget that Mormon pioneers settled and founded Las Vegas, Los Angeles, San Diego, San Francisco and hundreds of other western cities. the influence is still strong.

The only reason they are not noticed is because evangelical and LDS values are identical and Mormons vote in line with evangelicals. I personally know of many Latter-Day Saints who are deeply offended by Huckabee’s crusade (whisper and inuendo) to remind evangelicals that “Mormons are different.” I would anticipate a large exodus of LDS voters from the GOP if they feel for one second that the GOP and Huckabee snubbed Romney solely because of his faith.

LDS fathers do not like the idea of telling their sons that they can go to Harvard, become one of the most successful CEO’s in America, even be governor of Mass., but forget about ever being President son because bigoted evangelicals will cut you off at the pass.

No, I don’t think LDS parents are looking forward to that conversation with their children.

If you doubt the LDS population can influence the race if they separate from the GOP pack you should read the cover story from today’s “USA Today” newspaper where it points out that the 3 fastest growing states since 2000 were UT, AZ, and NV, all heavily LDS states. Again, only 14% of LDS are in Utah. There are millions of LDS scattered across the country, particularly in the west. They are going to flock to vote nationwide in primaries which typically only have a small turnout of GOP activists.

Here is a great post about why evangelicals should vote for Romney:

http://www.evangelicalsformitt.org/why.php

]]> By: fundyreformed http://www.fundamentallyreformed.com/2007/12/14/religious-bigotry-mike-huckabee-mormonism-and-the-new-york-times/comment-page-1/#comment-7967 fundyreformed Sun, 23 Dec 2007 21:37:48 +0000 http://fundyreformed.wordpress.com/2007/12/14/religious-bigotry-mike-huckabee-mormonism-and-the-new-york-times/#comment-7967 Will, I finally drafted my response on your blog. You bring up valid concerns, but I don't follow your conclusions. Have a great Christmas, Bob Will,

I finally drafted my response on your blog. You bring up valid concerns, but I don’t follow your conclusions.

Have a great Christmas,

Bob

]]> By: WilliamD http://www.fundamentallyreformed.com/2007/12/14/religious-bigotry-mike-huckabee-mormonism-and-the-new-york-times/comment-page-1/#comment-7938 WilliamD Sat, 22 Dec 2007 20:43:50 +0000 http://fundyreformed.wordpress.com/2007/12/14/religious-bigotry-mike-huckabee-mormonism-and-the-new-york-times/#comment-7938 Hey Bob, I'd be interested to hear your take on my latest post about Huckabee. http://reformingbaptist.blogspot.com/2007/12/why-i-havnt-jumped-on-huckabee-banwagon.html Hey Bob,
I’d be interested to hear your take on my latest post about Huckabee.

http://reformingbaptist.blogsp.....wagon.html

]]> By: no.billary http://www.fundamentallyreformed.com/2007/12/14/religious-bigotry-mike-huckabee-mormonism-and-the-new-york-times/comment-page-1/#comment-7926 no.billary Fri, 21 Dec 2007 06:41:12 +0000 http://fundyreformed.wordpress.com/2007/12/14/religious-bigotry-mike-huckabee-mormonism-and-the-new-york-times/#comment-7926 Check out the No-Billary campaign buttons, hats and T-shirts. The prices are really cheap too. Buy some of this campaign gear and share your No-Billary sentiments with others. For buttons click on ( http://www.cafepress.com/billarystore/4279785 ) and for all other merchandise click on ( http://www.cafepress.com/billarystore/4092115 )! Check out the No-Billary campaign buttons, hats and T-shirts. The prices are really cheap too. Buy some of this campaign gear and share your No-Billary sentiments with others.

For buttons click on ( http://www.cafepress.com/billarystore/4279785 ) and for all other merchandise click on ( http://www.cafepress.com/billarystore/4092115 )!

]]> By: Jim Heimbach http://www.fundamentallyreformed.com/2007/12/14/religious-bigotry-mike-huckabee-mormonism-and-the-new-york-times/comment-page-1/#comment-7937 Jim Heimbach Thu, 20 Dec 2007 23:31:45 +0000 http://fundyreformed.wordpress.com/2007/12/14/religious-bigotry-mike-huckabee-mormonism-and-the-new-york-times/#comment-7937 Just saw your blog. I think it is great what you have come to understand regarding what the Bible says/teaches i.e., reformed theology. I am a strong, conservative, orthodox Christian. However I couldn't disagree with you more on Huckabee. I will not vote for him because: 1. He is fundamentally naive on foreign policy. This is a fatal flaw in todays dangerous climate. 2. He is extremely weak on law and order. Witness the >1000 commutations as governor, an unbelievably large number. Inexplicable and indefensible. 3. He is weak on immigration. I seem to remember him supporting in-state tuitiion for illegals. 4. He has repeatedly shown poor judgement. e.g., Harshly criticizing CIA destruction of tapes when the facts have not been established. There are others. Not sure I need to continue. He may be a Christian, but he is unqualified to be our president. Just saw your blog. I think it is great what you have come to understand regarding what the Bible says/teaches i.e., reformed theology. I am a strong, conservative, orthodox Christian.
However I couldn’t disagree with you more on Huckabee. I will not vote for him because:
1. He is fundamentally naive on foreign policy. This is a fatal flaw in todays dangerous climate.
2. He is extremely weak on law and order. Witness the >1000 commutations as governor, an unbelievably large number. Inexplicable and indefensible.
3. He is weak on immigration. I seem to remember him supporting in-state tuitiion for illegals.
4. He has repeatedly shown poor judgement. e.g., Harshly criticizing CIA destruction of tapes when the facts have not been established.
There are others. Not sure I need to continue.
He may be a Christian, but he is unqualified to be our president.

]]> By: David http://www.fundamentallyreformed.com/2007/12/14/religious-bigotry-mike-huckabee-mormonism-and-the-new-york-times/comment-page-1/#comment-7930 David Tue, 18 Dec 2007 22:29:33 +0000 http://fundyreformed.wordpress.com/2007/12/14/religious-bigotry-mike-huckabee-mormonism-and-the-new-york-times/#comment-7930 Don't support Ron Paul, he thinks and acts way too much like the Founding Fathers!! I am so Glad the Media ignores him and trys to cover up his growing revolution. Support Huckabee!!! Because he can't tell anyone if the world was created in six literal days or millions of years. I love this guy!! Don’t support Ron Paul, he thinks and acts way too much like the Founding Fathers!! I am so Glad the Media ignores him and trys to cover up his growing revolution.
Support Huckabee!!! Because he can’t tell anyone if the world was created in six literal days or millions of years. I love this guy!!

]]> By: Martin http://www.fundamentallyreformed.com/2007/12/14/religious-bigotry-mike-huckabee-mormonism-and-the-new-york-times/comment-page-1/#comment-7931 Martin Tue, 18 Dec 2007 15:30:35 +0000 http://fundyreformed.wordpress.com/2007/12/14/religious-bigotry-mike-huckabee-mormonism-and-the-new-york-times/#comment-7931 I am listening, to you and to Huckabee. -quote- No matter what I say it’s just that I want a pastor of my religion to win the presidency. -unquote- This blog is all about fundamentalist christianity is it not? I only say you want a pastor for president because you are whitewashing Huckabee's poor decisions. (in this case is bias against non-evangelicals) You seem willing to overlook all his drawbacks as a President, and cheer him on like a true believer, rather than a serious politcal thinker. If his appeal was more well rounded I could understand your support. However, he is a one trick pony: the "Christian leader." I am listening, to you and to Huckabee.

-quote-
No matter what I say it’s just that I want a pastor of my religion to win the presidency.
-unquote-

This blog is all about fundamentalist christianity is it not?

I only say you want a pastor for president because you are whitewashing Huckabee’s poor decisions. (in this case is bias against non-evangelicals)

You seem willing to overlook all his drawbacks as a President, and cheer him on like a true believer, rather than a serious politcal thinker. If his appeal was more well rounded I could understand your support. However, he is a one trick pony: the “Christian leader.”

]]> By: fundyreformed http://www.fundamentallyreformed.com/2007/12/14/religious-bigotry-mike-huckabee-mormonism-and-the-new-york-times/comment-page-1/#comment-7929 fundyreformed Mon, 17 Dec 2007 16:00:08 +0000 http://fundyreformed.wordpress.com/2007/12/14/religious-bigotry-mike-huckabee-mormonism-and-the-new-york-times/#comment-7929 didn't know about the theology degree thing. He may have had a certificate already. Plus there are several levels of degrees he could have stopped an M. Div course but had an M.A. already. Regardless, this is getting a little crazy. No matter what I say it's just that I want a pastor of my religion to win the presidency. Um, no. You're not listening. So what's the point of this exchange? didn’t know about the theology degree thing. He may have had a certificate already. Plus there are several levels of degrees he could have stopped an M. Div course but had an M.A. already.

Regardless, this is getting a little crazy. No matter what I say it’s just that I want a pastor of my religion to win the presidency.

Um, no. You’re not listening. So what’s the point of this exchange?

]]> By: Martin http://www.fundamentallyreformed.com/2007/12/14/religious-bigotry-mike-huckabee-mormonism-and-the-new-york-times/comment-page-1/#comment-7927 Martin Mon, 17 Dec 2007 01:01:38 +0000 http://fundyreformed.wordpress.com/2007/12/14/religious-bigotry-mike-huckabee-mormonism-and-the-new-york-times/#comment-7927 Correction: Huckabee does not have a theology degree that he led us all to believe. He dropped out of Seminary without getting a degree. Just admit that you want him to win, because he is a member of your religious group, and you like his affable manner. You also like that he attacked Mormons, and you are willing to overlook all his poor decisions and careless statements because you want to see a pastor in the win the race. Winning isn't everthing, there is the matter of actually governing. The rest of us that take politics seriously want to see someone that a least finished school, preferably law school, hold the highest office in the Washington. It's good to see a few people are starting to look past his disarming personality and actually consider what will happen were he to win. It's not dishonorable to pick another candidate when he lies about his resume, and continues to say foolish things. It's called taking your vote seriously. Correction: Huckabee does not have a theology degree that he led us all to believe. He dropped out of Seminary without getting a degree.

Just admit that you want him to win, because he is a member of your religious group, and you like his affable manner. You also like that he attacked Mormons, and you are willing to overlook all his poor decisions and careless statements because you want to see a pastor in the win the race.

Winning isn’t everthing, there is the matter of actually governing.

The rest of us that take politics seriously want to see someone that a least finished school, preferably law school, hold the highest office in the Washington.

It’s good to see a few people are starting to look past his disarming personality and actually consider what will happen were he to win.

It’s not dishonorable to pick another candidate when he lies about his resume, and continues to say foolish things. It’s called taking your vote seriously.

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