Could it be that God would redeem someone in the hip-hop/rap culture and then arm that person with hip-hop/rap music with the Gospel message and send him back in to be a witness for those who God has called and chosen within that culture? It may be a good evangelistic tool to be an entry point into the kingdom for some steeped in that lifestyle.

I remember paul in scripture saying “I have become all things to all people… that I may win some”

I am praying about this topic, I think that we need to be careful to do that which is good and of good report in all that we do, but to avoid music altogether doesn’t seem right either.

Blessings,

Bob Hayton

Stephen

I think you came up short, however.

Elijah and Carmel is not pattern. There is express law about how to build altars. There is no express law about which musical styles are acceptable.

Mick Jagger has an opinion, but does he officially represent the music itself? Has all rock music been officially dedicated to Satan? You say “culture infected with sin is evil”. But all culture is infected with sin. Sinful people create the culture we share. The world is marred by the Fall.

How do we know which practices to avoid and which not to? The Bible. Nowhere does the Bible teach that things the world does is bad, simply because they do them. Scripture tells us to avoid lasciviousness and lust and etc.

For some, this might mean avoiding all rock music. But this is not a Scriptural rule. Music of this world must be judged according to Scripture. The fruit of much CCM music and praise and worship, is good. By your fruits you shall know them.

Classical and Baroque music styles are as “of the world” as rock, jazz and the like. They can be sensual or not, sinful or not. Music by itself does not convey meaning with enough specificity to be overtly morally wrong in most instances. Music, like art, weaves pattern, specific colors/sounds, notes/strokes, style, and artful intent/lyrical content together into a homogenous entity. You have to judge each picture independently, you can’t simply accept all Realist paintings, as many have explicit nudity which should be frowned upon from a Scriptural perspective. You can’t reject all modern art out of hand, simply because you don’t understand the meaning the artist is trying to convey, but certainly some modern art contains overt sensuality or purposeful wickedness (cross in urine, etc.). Same goes for music, each piece and work must be judged. There is something to be said for association, but generally each piece should be judged independently. On this front, some CCM might fail the test, but much of it doesn’t. It clearly is not intended to, nor does it convey, sexuality. To those who understand and appreciate the musical style/genre.

Church history is important. Pattern and principle is more so. As Christians we must be careful, however, not to make judgments where Scripture is silent. Does the teaching concerning singing a “new song” require our bushman Fred to create a whole new musical genre and sound? Or can he reclaim his native genre and put it to a different, new use? Can he add intent and lyrical content to the style and use it from a pure heart in obedience to Scripture? Where in Scripture would he be given instruction as to which styles of music are acceptable and why the music he is most familiar with should be treated as evil in and of itself?

I thank you for your interactions, and desire for Scripture to be followed.

Blessings in Christ,

Bob Hayton

By pattern, Elijah at Mount Carmel did not offer sacrifices on the altar of Baal, or use means dedicated to Baal for worship of Jehovah. Instead he repaired the altar that was dedicated to Jehovah that was already present and worshipped on that. By principle, the Law says that one is not to bring the price of a dog or the hire of a harlot into the house of the Lord for it is an abomination to Him. The money used for sin cannot be given to God under any circumstances. But, money is amoral — it can be used for good things like paying tithes, taxes, bills, etc. However, it can also be used for sin, such as going to the whore-house. Yet, what was given for sin cannot be given to God — sacrifices to Jehovah must be without spot and blemish. Therefore, music dedicated to Satan cannot be dedicated to God. Rock music (among the many sinful genres) is the devil’s music, according to Satanic rocker Mick Jagger, and CCM of any sort is, in his words, “stealing from Satan.”

As to it just being part of Fred’s culture, that argument takes some primary considerations: first, only culture based on Scripture is acceptible culture. Culture infected with sin is evil. Example: it is perfectly acceptible for people in some bush-tribes to go about wearing only tattoos, but that does not make it morally right. Therefore, Bob and those who side with him have no standing-ground. Also, Jesus said that new wine cannot be poured into old wineskins because the old skins will burst and the wine will be lost: Christianity cannot be practiced with the old method of worship.

As to the argument that belief in moral-immoral music being dualistic, the opposite is truth. How can something historically dedicated to sin be good? To say that rock music (dedicated to evil) can be used for good is dualism at its lowest. However, as western logic is linear, that which is evil is not good, nor can man perceive something that is evil to be good.

Finaly, Bob, your use of CCM as a hyper-Calvinist is rather ironic because Calvin stripped all the churches of Geneva of all their music, instruments, and harmony, leaving only the unaccompanied (a-capella) Psalter with everybody singing melody. I do not think that he would be in favor of such worldly innovations as CCM, considering that it was because of worldly innovations in his day that he did such a house-cleaning.

WOO!

Now ima go listen to CCM to celebrate the victory.

I think this is one point of misunderstanding among Christians. Some view culture as entirely debased, being rooted in humanity. But I think that they are making the mistake of assuming that all of culture is wicked. Some of culture is entirely benign, and based upon such things as weather and availability of food. And music, even if based on fleshly pleasure, is not necessarily any more debased than the healthy desire for food and sex.

When we talk of redeeming the culture, what we are really doing is “holding fast to what is good” while rejecting the unbibilcal VALUES and PRACTICES of culture. The FORMS of culture will largely be benign, if not positive.

I also think that when we talk of redeeming the culture, we ARE talking about Christianizing it, but also realizing that this work, while bettering mankind and perhaps helping to usher in the Kingdom (depending on your school of theology), will be at best imperfect until “the perfect has come,” which is Jesus’s second return.

Affecting culture with Christian truth is part of our obedience to taking all thoughts captive to Christ. We must think and act in all areas of life, including music and culture, in a Christian manner, and encourage others to do so as well.

While separationists and isolationists will call this work “polishing brass on a sinking ship,” their own isolationist theology is allowing others in the world culture they ignore suffer, deny avenues to the gospel, and allow hell to reign in public life.