Also, please call the fetus what it is, instead of relying on emotional rhetoric by calling it a “child.”

How about an “unborn human person”?

There is no such thing as an unneeded life.

That’s why I said “most.” Of course, very young fetuses are dependent on their mothers. (Then again, so are newborns).

Why should abortion be outlawed because it’s a tough choice for women to make?

The reaction of the girls I know who have had abortions to the abortion convinced me that the practice was evil. I have known some who would try to assert they’re not ashamed, but I don’t find their testimony compelling. I think it is denial, which is a very natural human reaction. We all tend to deny that certain things hurt us.

For example, I have known victims of molestation who cope with the pain by developing the idea that what happened to them wasn’t bad, that there’s no shame in “immoral” sex, and go on to be promiscuous (this is where most female porn stars come from). Others seek out the most hard-core religious groups they can and try to make themselves feel holier or atone for their actions.

I want to make it clear that while I think abortion is murder, that we are all very much bound up in sin and I do not wish to be hateful or judgmental to those who have them.

Two more things.

1) I came across a rather interesting post summarizing the startling facts regarding overpopulation. The facts are that the US is barely maintaining its population, while almost all of the rest of the West (non 3rd world countries) are well below that mark.

2) I want to caution us all in how we interact with others on this (and other) blogs—especially how we interact with unbelievers. We are all prone (myself included) to take things personally (especially due to not being able to hear the intonations of someone’s voice or see the expression on their face) and to jump to the defensive. What was said in this discussion from “our side” was largely correct. But perhaps we could have spoken with more love and grace. Perhaps we could have been more patient. I am not sure that would have changed the outcome of the debate any, but perhaps we would have gained an ear or encouraged someone to stick with this blog and post an occasional dissenting opinion. That would have possibly resulted in more “ministry” opportunities.

Regardless, and I speak this to myself as well, let us try to keep 2 Tim. 2:24-25 and Col. 4:5-6 in view at all times when blogging.

Thanks again for all who participated. Please, don’t run away, I enjoy your help and support (and interaction) on the blog.

God bless you all richly through Christ Jesus,

Bob

God bless,

Bob

Have a great day,

Bob

Interesting conversation, thanks for all who have participated.

I want to speak to a few things quickly, as I don’t have much time.

First of all, I understand that women are affected when faced with unwanted pregnancies. But there is documented additional emotional and physical problems caused by abortion. See this articl: “Does Abortion Harm a Woman’s Physical and Mental Health?” by Randy Alcorn.

Secondly, I will go and read at least one story at that website you gave, as soon as I have some time. I don’t doubt that many are fine with their decision. However, I am sure you are aware that the pro life numbers are swelling with women who have had abortions and seriously regretted them.

Thirdly, you say the fetus is just tissue. Remember it has every organ it will ever have by the end of the first trimester, and every first trimester abortion is done on a “blob of tissue” that has a beating heart and measurable brain waves. Further, the fetus absolutely looks like a human at that early age. We even have laws defending such preborn children. Which is strange when mothers can abort that same preborn child if they want to.

Fourthly, it is clear that this is an emotionally charged issue. And don’t get me wrong, when dealing with someone facing this decision, I wouldn’t advocate a “thumping a Bible in their face” approach. Care and compassion are needed. But there is so much more harm done through the abortion than adoption would ever cause.

Fifth, I do have Biblical reasons for my position. And I do apply the Bible to all of life. All religions are equally able to make claims, and all truth claims deserve to be heard. Yet at the end of the day, only certain positions are true, while others are false. There is an absolute right and wrong.

Sixth, you mention overpopulation. Since 1972 the average reproductive rate in America has been 1.8 children. 2.1 is needed to maintain zero population growth. The increase in population we have seen, has been largely due to immigration. Actually, if you look at Western cultures, they are almost all reproducing at a rate far less than what is required to maintain current population levels.

Seventh, you challenge me and those who hold my position, to adopt more and to help lower class families more. That is a valid charge. It would be easy to judge others and withold any help from them. However, that being said, you should know that the church I am a part of has two adoption funds (one for foreign children and another for minorities). We strongly advocate adopting children, and I know of dozens of families that have adopted. Further, we advocate helping the poor strongly. We support local charity organizations for our metropilatan area, and we are strongly advocating racial reconciliation and empowerment issues.

You should know that we have many more arguments than merely a Bible verse, for you. And we know this is not an easy issue. It is complex. But I am confident that even when viewed from a strictly secular standpoint, abortin is very problematic. But since I believe as I do in God and in the Bible, I have an even greater desire to stand up for the unborn.

Finally, it seems clear that none of us will be able to convince Hannah nor she us. I don’t want to encourage this debate to go on for ever, especially if it continues in such heated tones. We have made some points on both sides. Let us put this to rest. I will let Hannah have another word, though, before deciding for sure on this.

God bless,

Bob Hayton

And what about the people who don’t see abortion with any distaste at all? Why are you disregarding them?

As for the “life is a good thing” comment, why not try to help other already-living babies and young children have the best lives possible instead of bringing more and more unneeded lives into this world? The United States is, as a country, starting to become overcrowded. That needs to be dealt with before we make any decisions that will lead to a rise in birthrates, like outlawing abortion will. So I’d love to see you and other pro-lifers actually adopt some of the hundreds of thousands of babies and children currently in the foster care system, and/or help out a lower-class family financially. Words mean nothing in this situation. Actions speak much, much louder here. So, are you ready to do either of those things? Or will you continue to be selfish and disregard the consequences of your opinions?

Also, a first-trimester fetus cannot survive outside the womb. It’s basic biology. None of its organs have fully matured, so therefore, there is basically a 0% chance of survival. So my definition of humanity is not arbitrary at all, rather, it’s based on biological factors. (Which should have actually been obvious, seeing as I’m an atheist and all, and I believe primarily in science. LOL.)

Also, could you please answer my question that I posed to you in the previous post? In case you missed it, here it is again: “Why should abortion be outlawed because it’s a tough choice for women to make? That would be like outlawing pet euthanasia because it, too, is a difficult choice to make. Yet I doubt you’re out rallying for that cause. So what makes this difficult decision any different?” There it is, quoted directly from my previous post. If you could answer that, that’d be great. Thanks.