Comments on: Welch's Grape Juice, Worldly Wisdom, and Wine

By: Scott

Scott — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 20:43:07 +0000

This website explains the symbolism in the unfermented wine at Passover, which Jesus was celebrating at the instituting of the Lord’s Supper: http://www.yrm.org/wine_or_grape_juice.htm I think it is worth a look. As a response to another idea that unfermented grape juice was impossible to have kept from the time of the Jews’ grape harvest unto the Passover (about 6 months) is this excerpt from a book on wine in the Bible: http://www.biblicalperspective.....ble/3.html

God Bless,

Scott

By: jean

jean — Sat, 28 Mar 2009 02:45:36 +0000

don’t read many blogs but this one caught my eye and is interesting to read. My only thought is that trying to decide what “wine” or juice” to drink at a communion seems more an act of taste preferences. Why would anyone really want real wine when there may be young people there. I probably would never even take communion if we had to have real wine. It tastes terrible to me and we never know who is choosing the wine. But shouldnt the reason for the decision be whether real wine is the scriptural choice or is it symbolic and in our day and time, either real watered down wine would probably be just enough to start a alchololic back. I know God knows his heart, but what if he heart was not particularly pure when taking it. I think the grape juice is just a safer drink that will encompass all members who come to the table. As for me, I’m a non drinker. thanks for letting me pop in

By: fundyreformed

fundyreformed — Mon, 23 Mar 2009 02:36:58 +0000

Interesting, Chris. I hadn’t heard of a church doing that. I agree with your point about us acting like we know more than God does, too….

By: Chris Cole

Chris Cole — Sun, 22 Mar 2009 23:04:18 +0000

In my church, a designated portion of the cups contains wine, the other portion juice, so that everyone can act on his own conscience. I personally use the wine. One concern I have about the “risk to alcoholics” position is that it seems to imply that the speaker has more compassion for the alcoholic than God does. Is it really reasonable to believe that God doesn’t know that there are alcoholics among us?

By: fundyreformed

fundyreformed — Thu, 19 Mar 2009 20:24:32 +0000

Michael,

He has an index in the back with all the Bible verses, and he doesn’t address either Deut. 14:26 or Numbers 6:?? which both affirm strong drink.

I’ve perused through the book, if I can find it again, at some point I’ll review it on my blog I think. I’ve reviewed, God Gave Wine which is written by someone who is not defending his drinking habits or anything, he doesn’t drink due to health reasons, and before that didn’t drink hardly at all. He admits he doesn’t like the stuff too.

When one obscure book contradicts all the standard scholarly works on the production of alcohol and the history of its use in different eras, we should have the right to be skeptical.

By: Michael

Michael — Thu, 19 Mar 2009 19:53:41 +0000

You say he had a clear bias. To me this implies you and perhaps those with the opposite point of view do not have a bias. In my experience everybody that makes a statement for or against an issue has a bias. As far as touching the most important verses, that could be your opinion and not fact, esp since you say you have not read the book. So I conclude, there must be a bias on your part, how could you know he does not speak to these important scriptural verses if you have not read the book?

By: fundyreformed

fundyreformed — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 03:55:33 +0000

Thanks Michael. Patton’s view from a historical and scientific perspective, from what I’ve researched, is a minority view. He comes to the issue with a clear bias, and doesn’t even address some of the most important Scriptural verses on the topic. I do own a copy of his book, but admit to not having read it. I have looked through it, however.

By: Michael

Michael — Sat, 07 Mar 2009 05:59:43 +0000

I liked that you obviously did your research, lots of people who say the bible says it is ok to drink wine do not know or will not acknowlegde the fact that there was/is such a thing as unfermented wine. I encourage you to read “Bible Wines” by William Patton, then make another post. I would be very interested in what you have to say about his research. His book is sometimes known as “Laws of Fermentation and Wines of the Ancients.” It is a rather short book so it should be a quick read. If you can not find it at the book store you might try a Baptist book store or contact Challenge Press at (610)965-4700, 4702 Colebrook Ave. Emmaus, Pa. 18049. It cost me about $8.00.

By: fundyreformed

fundyreformed — Sat, 24 Jan 2009 14:24:48 +0000

Elton, That verse refers to priests when they minister in the sanctuary. See what else God's word says:

Deuteronomy 14:22-26 “You shall tithe all the yield of your seed that comes from the field year by year. And before the LORD your God, in the place that he will choose, to make his name dwell there, you shall eat the tithe of your grain, of your wine, and of your oil, and the firstborn of your herd and flock, that you may learn to fear the LORD your God always. And if the way is too long for you, so that you are not able to carry the tithe, when the LORD your God blesses you, because the place is too far from you, which the LORD your God chooses, to set his name there, then you shall turn it into money and bind up the money in your hand and go to the place that the LORD your God chooses and spend the money for whatever you desire–oxen or sheep or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves. And you shall eat there before the LORD your God and rejoice, you and your household.”

I encourage you to see my study of what God's word says on this topic in this post: Wine to Gladden the Heart of Man: Thoughts on God's Good Gift of Wine.

By: Elton Ovitt

Elton Ovitt — Sat, 24 Jan 2009 13:30:40 +0000

You my friend are ignorant of what God’s word says.
Le 10:9 Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations:
(KJV)

The word of God does not change, people that don’t like what it says try to change it. You are one of those people