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	<title>Comments on: &quot;Wine to Gladden the Heart of Man&quot;: Thoughts on God&#039;s Good Gift of Wine</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.fundamentallyreformed.com/2006/03/20/wine-gladden-heart/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.fundamentallyreformed.com/2006/03/20/wine-gladden-heart/</link>
	<description>Reforming Fundamentalism (IFB) through Reformed Theology</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 20 Mar 2010 01:45:45 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: fundyreformed</title>
		<link>http://www.fundamentallyreformed.com/2006/03/20/wine-gladden-heart/comment-page-2/#comment-11373</link>
		<dc:creator>fundyreformed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Mar 2010 16:06:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://fundyreformed.wordpress.com/2006/03/20/wine-to-gladden-the-heart-of-man-thoughts-on-gods-good-gift-of-wine/#comment-11373</guid>
		<description>Glad you found my blog, Matt.  I can definitely identify with your situation.

If I can help in any way, let me know.  Hope you stick around...

Blessings in Christ,

Bob</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glad you found my blog, Matt.  I can definitely identify with your situation.</p>
<p>If I can help in any way, let me know.  Hope you stick around&#8230;</p>
<p>Blessings in Christ,</p>
<p>Bob</p>
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		<title>By: matt</title>
		<link>http://www.fundamentallyreformed.com/2006/03/20/wine-gladden-heart/comment-page-2/#comment-11361</link>
		<dc:creator>matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Mar 2010 15:17:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://fundyreformed.wordpress.com/2006/03/20/wine-to-gladden-the-heart-of-man-thoughts-on-gods-good-gift-of-wine/#comment-11361</guid>
		<description>Thanks for this post Bob!
I came from nearly identical background from you, and recently had a discussion with another friend from my past who is now also somewhat reformed but still holds on to much of the IFB legalism.  His arguments against alcohol boiled down to that he believes that when I drink a glass of wine he sins.   I think he about died when I told him that Jesus drank and that I believe that christians not only can but should!
I wish I would have found this while we were still discussing it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for this post Bob!<br />
I came from nearly identical background from you, and recently had a discussion with another friend from my past who is now also somewhat reformed but still holds on to much of the IFB legalism.  His arguments against alcohol boiled down to that he believes that when I drink a glass of wine he sins.   I think he about died when I told him that Jesus drank and that I believe that christians not only can but should!<br />
I wish I would have found this while we were still discussing it.</p>
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		<title>By: fundyreformed</title>
		<link>http://www.fundamentallyreformed.com/2006/03/20/wine-gladden-heart/comment-page-2/#comment-11314</link>
		<dc:creator>fundyreformed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 00:55:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://fundyreformed.wordpress.com/2006/03/20/wine-to-gladden-the-heart-of-man-thoughts-on-gods-good-gift-of-wine/#comment-11314</guid>
		<description>Nick,

Many beers today are 3.2% content.  The stuff I&#039;ve read suggests that a typical wine in Bible times was around 4% alcoholic content or so.  What you are saying about having to drink the stuff all day in order to get drunk doesn&#039;t quite fit in with the Biblical admonitions not to get drunk, and not to be deceived by wine.  

I do agree that it is easier to get drunk using today&#039;s distilled liquors.  This doesn&#039;t necessarily change things all that much.  Scripture says, per my argument above, that the effects of wine that come prior to inebriation are commendable.  So if having one&#039;s spirit uplifted by the drink is commendable, surely this is true whether or not it took 3 cupfuls of liquid to get there or just 1.  Drunkenness is still forbidden and you can avoid it easily today.

In fact, the very cup designs for drinking alcohol today bear this in mind.  Wine is served in 6 oz. wine glasses, vodka is served in 2 oz. shot glasses.  Beer is served in 12 oz. mugs.  Each of these servings will give one approximately the same alcoholic punch.  None of these would typically get the average person drunk.  

Hope that helps.  You may also want to explore other articles I&#039;ve done on this topic under &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.fundamentallyreformed.com/category/wine/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the category wine&lt;/a&gt;.

Blessings in Christ,

Bob</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nick,</p>
<p>Many beers today are 3.2% content.  The stuff I&#8217;ve read suggests that a typical wine in Bible times was around 4% alcoholic content or so.  What you are saying about having to drink the stuff all day in order to get drunk doesn&#8217;t quite fit in with the Biblical admonitions not to get drunk, and not to be deceived by wine.  </p>
<p>I do agree that it is easier to get drunk using today&#8217;s distilled liquors.  This doesn&#8217;t necessarily change things all that much.  Scripture says, per my argument above, that the effects of wine that come prior to inebriation are commendable.  So if having one&#8217;s spirit uplifted by the drink is commendable, surely this is true whether or not it took 3 cupfuls of liquid to get there or just 1.  Drunkenness is still forbidden and you can avoid it easily today.</p>
<p>In fact, the very cup designs for drinking alcohol today bear this in mind.  Wine is served in 6 oz. wine glasses, vodka is served in 2 oz. shot glasses.  Beer is served in 12 oz. mugs.  Each of these servings will give one approximately the same alcoholic punch.  None of these would typically get the average person drunk.  </p>
<p>Hope that helps.  You may also want to explore other articles I&#8217;ve done on this topic under <a href="http://www.fundamentallyreformed.com/category/wine/" rel="nofollow">the category wine</a>.</p>
<p>Blessings in Christ,</p>
<p>Bob</p>
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		<title>By: Nick</title>
		<link>http://www.fundamentallyreformed.com/2006/03/20/wine-gladden-heart/comment-page-2/#comment-11311</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 21:14:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://fundyreformed.wordpress.com/2006/03/20/wine-to-gladden-the-heart-of-man-thoughts-on-gods-good-gift-of-wine/#comment-11311</guid>
		<description>You did not post any kind of alcoholic percentages. Wine today and wine in the Bible had very differing alcoholic contents. While God may have permitted the enjoyment of fermented or &quot;possibly intoxicating&quot; wine, actually getting drunk on the stuff would have taken all day given its small alcoholic content. Today, beverages are not even considered alcoholic under 3.2%. Wine in biblical times appears to have been under that percentage, and while that has no effect on the thinking of people back then, it can help us to understand God&#039;s view of wine in Biblical perspectives. What was the BIBLICAL process of wine making? Scripture must interpreted correctly. We both agree on that, but how must one view wine in regards to the culture of that day and not ours.
                                   Thanks,
                                     Your brother in Christ Nick</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You did not post any kind of alcoholic percentages. Wine today and wine in the Bible had very differing alcoholic contents. While God may have permitted the enjoyment of fermented or &#8220;possibly intoxicating&#8221; wine, actually getting drunk on the stuff would have taken all day given its small alcoholic content. Today, beverages are not even considered alcoholic under 3.2%. Wine in biblical times appears to have been under that percentage, and while that has no effect on the thinking of people back then, it can help us to understand God&#8217;s view of wine in Biblical perspectives. What was the BIBLICAL process of wine making? Scripture must interpreted correctly. We both agree on that, but how must one view wine in regards to the culture of that day and not ours.<br />
                                   Thanks,<br />
                                     Your brother in Christ Nick</p>
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		<title>By: fundyreformed</title>
		<link>http://www.fundamentallyreformed.com/2006/03/20/wine-gladden-heart/comment-page-2/#comment-5381</link>
		<dc:creator>fundyreformed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2008 16:07:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://fundyreformed.wordpress.com/2006/03/20/wine-to-gladden-the-heart-of-man-thoughts-on-gods-good-gift-of-wine/#comment-5381</guid>
		<description>Charles,

Thanks for dropping by.  The Bible actually condones the use of strong drink in Deut. 14:22-26 and Numbers 28:7.  Many want to make &quot;fruit of the vine&quot; into some description of non-alcoholic drink, but this is a faulty assumption.  The phrase is only used by Jesus in the specific context of the Passover / Lord&#039;s Supper.  In Judaism it was a technical term for the wine used at the Passover which we know was wine (albeit somewhat watered down comparable to the alcoholic content of beer).  The Bible predominantly uses the term wine, and almost always it is a fermented wine, at least most scholars say this is the case.

We need to beware of bringing our interpretation to the text instead of letting the text force our interpretation.

Blessings to you in Christ,

Bob Hayton</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Charles,</p>
<p>Thanks for dropping by.  The Bible actually condones the use of strong drink in Deut. 14:22-26 and Numbers 28:7.  Many want to make &#8220;fruit of the vine&#8221; into some description of non-alcoholic drink, but this is a faulty assumption.  The phrase is only used by Jesus in the specific context of the Passover / Lord&#8217;s Supper.  In Judaism it was a technical term for the wine used at the Passover which we know was wine (albeit somewhat watered down comparable to the alcoholic content of beer).  The Bible predominantly uses the term wine, and almost always it is a fermented wine, at least most scholars say this is the case.</p>
<p>We need to beware of bringing our interpretation to the text instead of letting the text force our interpretation.</p>
<p>Blessings to you in Christ,</p>
<p>Bob Hayton</p>
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		<title>By: Charles</title>
		<link>http://www.fundamentallyreformed.com/2006/03/20/wine-gladden-heart/comment-page-2/#comment-5380</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 21:45:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://fundyreformed.wordpress.com/2006/03/20/wine-to-gladden-the-heart-of-man-thoughts-on-gods-good-gift-of-wine/#comment-5380</guid>
		<description>Could it be that what the Bible refers to as (fruit of the vine) is actually fresh grape juice and not modern day wine (grape juice left to ferment). Since the Bible does condemn strong drink.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Could it be that what the Bible refers to as (fruit of the vine) is actually fresh grape juice and not modern day wine (grape juice left to ferment). Since the Bible does condemn strong drink.</p>
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		<title>By: Isaiah 16:10 and the Two-Wine Theory &#171; Fundamentally Reformed</title>
		<link>http://www.fundamentallyreformed.com/2006/03/20/wine-gladden-heart/comment-page-2/#comment-5382</link>
		<dc:creator>Isaiah 16:10 and the Two-Wine Theory &#171; Fundamentally Reformed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 18:48:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://fundyreformed.wordpress.com/2006/03/20/wine-to-gladden-the-heart-of-man-thoughts-on-gods-good-gift-of-wine/#comment-5382</guid>
		<description>[...] is just a few texts on wine bringing joy. You can see a fuller post covering this topic here. No other beverage is singled out as one which produces joy. And the very nature of alcoholic wine [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] is just a few texts on wine bringing joy. You can see a fuller post covering this topic here. No other beverage is singled out as one which produces joy. And the very nature of alcoholic wine [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Curious</title>
		<link>http://www.fundamentallyreformed.com/2006/03/20/wine-gladden-heart/comment-page-2/#comment-5366</link>
		<dc:creator>Curious</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 21:05:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://fundyreformed.wordpress.com/2006/03/20/wine-to-gladden-the-heart-of-man-thoughts-on-gods-good-gift-of-wine/#comment-5366</guid>
		<description>I enjoyed the discussion here.

I&#039;ve been participating in a discussion on &lt;a href=&quot;www.boundless.org&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Boundless.org&lt;/a&gt; and was sent on a chase for articles condemning the use of alcohol.

I grew up in the Episcopal church, so this whole argument is only a recent one for me to deal with.

Concerning giving alcohol to children:
Strong liquor has been used mixed with milk to calm babies&#039; stomachs and help them sleep better.

I personally was allowed to have a sip of wine starting at the age of 10 with every major family dinner (Easter, Thanksgiving, Christmas).  I remember my father sending me to visit a friend in Wisconsin with money for Milwakee brewed beer when I was 13 (I was adamently opposed to this idea, but I laughed at how serious he was about it).

As I grew older, my parents and uncle felt it better to expose us to alcohol and teach us how to use it wisely while we were still young enough to be influenced by them.  In their minds, far better for us to not feel the need to sneak out and over-indulge on a binge that to be free to drink within the presence of family members.

I appreciate many of your arguments.  I have never questioned whether it was a sin or not to partake in alcoholic drinks.  This was simply because by the time I was old enough to legally drink and no longer at my &quot;dry-campus&quot; college, I had already been exposed to what the bible says about alcohol.

To Dave and those that don&#039;t agree that it is right and have chosen to abstain, I respect your choice and it makes me very happy that you have stated your position in such a way that doesn&#039;t make me feel like the &quot;spawn of the devil&quot;.

To the anonymous college student, it is possible to say &quot;no&quot;.  However, its a lot easier to say &quot;no&quot; when you don&#039;t feel that it is a novelty.  Most college students shouldn&#039;t be drinking outside of their parents&#039; homes due to the country&#039;s laws, anyway.  But when drinking, I would encourage every christian to set a limit before they ever start drinking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I enjoyed the discussion here.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been participating in a discussion on <a href="www.boundless.org" rel="nofollow">Boundless.org</a> and was sent on a chase for articles condemning the use of alcohol.</p>
<p>I grew up in the Episcopal church, so this whole argument is only a recent one for me to deal with.</p>
<p>Concerning giving alcohol to children:<br />
Strong liquor has been used mixed with milk to calm babies&#8217; stomachs and help them sleep better.</p>
<p>I personally was allowed to have a sip of wine starting at the age of 10 with every major family dinner (Easter, Thanksgiving, Christmas).  I remember my father sending me to visit a friend in Wisconsin with money for Milwakee brewed beer when I was 13 (I was adamently opposed to this idea, but I laughed at how serious he was about it).</p>
<p>As I grew older, my parents and uncle felt it better to expose us to alcohol and teach us how to use it wisely while we were still young enough to be influenced by them.  In their minds, far better for us to not feel the need to sneak out and over-indulge on a binge that to be free to drink within the presence of family members.</p>
<p>I appreciate many of your arguments.  I have never questioned whether it was a sin or not to partake in alcoholic drinks.  This was simply because by the time I was old enough to legally drink and no longer at my &#8220;dry-campus&#8221; college, I had already been exposed to what the bible says about alcohol.</p>
<p>To Dave and those that don&#8217;t agree that it is right and have chosen to abstain, I respect your choice and it makes me very happy that you have stated your position in such a way that doesn&#8217;t make me feel like the &#8220;spawn of the devil&#8221;.</p>
<p>To the anonymous college student, it is possible to say &#8220;no&#8221;.  However, its a lot easier to say &#8220;no&#8221; when you don&#8217;t feel that it is a novelty.  Most college students shouldn&#8217;t be drinking outside of their parents&#8217; homes due to the country&#8217;s laws, anyway.  But when drinking, I would encourage every christian to set a limit before they ever start drinking.</p>
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		<title>By: fundyreformed</title>
		<link>http://www.fundamentallyreformed.com/2006/03/20/wine-gladden-heart/comment-page-1/#comment-5363</link>
		<dc:creator>fundyreformed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2008 03:52:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://fundyreformed.wordpress.com/2006/03/20/wine-to-gladden-the-heart-of-man-thoughts-on-gods-good-gift-of-wine/#comment-5363</guid>
		<description>Sure Erik.  Just provide a link back to this post.

Blessings in Christ,

Bob</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure Erik.  Just provide a link back to this post.</p>
<p>Blessings in Christ,</p>
<p>Bob</p>
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		<title>By: Erik</title>
		<link>http://www.fundamentallyreformed.com/2006/03/20/wine-gladden-heart/comment-page-1/#comment-5361</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2008 00:13:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://fundyreformed.wordpress.com/2006/03/20/wine-to-gladden-the-heart-of-man-thoughts-on-gods-good-gift-of-wine/#comment-5361</guid>
		<description>Just recently found your blog.  Nice post.  Do you mind if I quote some of your stuff in a blog I am preparing?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just recently found your blog.  Nice post.  Do you mind if I quote some of your stuff in a blog I am preparing?</p>
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