Comments on: Clarification http://www.fundamentallyreformed.com/2005/12/16/clarification/ Reforming Fundamentalism (IFB) through Reformed Theology Fri, 19 Mar 2010 19:36:08 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Fundamentally Reformed » My first trip to the movie theater! http://www.fundamentallyreformed.com/2005/12/16/clarification/comment-page-1/#comment-5102 Fundamentally Reformed » My first trip to the movie theater! Mon, 14 Aug 2006 11:32:57 +0000 https://fundyreformed.wordpress.com/2005/12/16/clarification/#comment-5102 [...] Before leaving this point, I must turn to the common argumentation for these stands. I believe that I can turn the two most commonly raised objections to attending movie theaters on their head. First, it is said that no one will know what you watched when you are seen coming out of a theater (of course if they look at the sign which lists a fairly new release of a popular kids movie rated G and you are seen holding your children’s hands, they must be blind not to put two and two together…) and so this is a potentially damaging testimony issue. Of course no one will know which movies you rented when seen leaving the local Blockbuster either. And no one will know whether you drank beer when you come out of a Pizza Hut or Apple Bees either! And no one will know if you bought a dirty R rated movie at Wal-mart when you are seen leaving that store, too. Ad infitum. Second, it is said that one must “avoid all appearance of evil” (1 Thess. 5:22). Beside the fact that that is a misinterpretation of the verse (based on the misunderstanding of the KJV’s 400 year old english, the Greek word means “form” and the verse is not addressing what things look like on the outside, but is saying avoid every kind or every form of evil, that you could happen to be involved with), there is as much “appearance of evil” coming out of a video store as a movie theater. The fact is there are many wholesome films which can be watched by discerning believers today. Yes, discernment is often necessary, but that is how God made this earth. To make everything really nice and easy, we could just go and join the Amish, now, couldn’t we? [UPDATE: I posted this before my clarification. I do not intend by this argumentation to despise someone who concludes that it is best to protect their family from the wrong influence of Hollywood by avoiding the theater and using videos/DVDs with discernment. In fact, I feel that we as Christians have so much more to do than waste all our time on often mediocre (at best) entertainment! I am merely trying to point out that in this issue we cannot be dogmatic and insist that if anyone goes to a theater they are sinning or are not being careful with regards to sin. It is the fact that so many IFBs (and especially IFBxs {see clarification}) preach their position on theaters as Bible, ie. absolute truth, that deeply offends me. It seems the movement prefers to tout a list of authoritative regulations rather than encourage the independent and Biblically-informed use of discernment when it comes to dealing with the complexities of our increasingly immoral culture.] [...] [...] Before leaving this point, I must turn to the common argumentation for these stands. I believe that I can turn the two most commonly raised objections to attending movie theaters on their head. First, it is said that no one will know what you watched when you are seen coming out of a theater (of course if they look at the sign which lists a fairly new release of a popular kids movie rated G and you are seen holding your children’s hands, they must be blind not to put two and two together…) and so this is a potentially damaging testimony issue. Of course no one will know which movies you rented when seen leaving the local Blockbuster either. And no one will know whether you drank beer when you come out of a Pizza Hut or Apple Bees either! And no one will know if you bought a dirty R rated movie at Wal-mart when you are seen leaving that store, too. Ad infitum. Second, it is said that one must “avoid all appearance of evil” (1 Thess. 5:22). Beside the fact that that is a misinterpretation of the verse (based on the misunderstanding of the KJV’s 400 year old english, the Greek word means “form” and the verse is not addressing what things look like on the outside, but is saying avoid every kind or every form of evil, that you could happen to be involved with), there is as much “appearance of evil” coming out of a video store as a movie theater. The fact is there are many wholesome films which can be watched by discerning believers today. Yes, discernment is often necessary, but that is how God made this earth. To make everything really nice and easy, we could just go and join the Amish, now, couldn’t we? [UPDATE: I posted this before my clarification. I do not intend by this argumentation to despise someone who concludes that it is best to protect their family from the wrong influence of Hollywood by avoiding the theater and using videos/DVDs with discernment. In fact, I feel that we as Christians have so much more to do than waste all our time on often mediocre (at best) entertainment! I am merely trying to point out that in this issue we cannot be dogmatic and insist that if anyone goes to a theater they are sinning or are not being careful with regards to sin. It is the fact that so many IFBs (and especially IFBxs {see clarification}) preach their position on theaters as Bible, ie. absolute truth, that deeply offends me. It seems the movement prefers to tout a list of authoritative regulations rather than encourage the independent and Biblically-informed use of discernment when it comes to dealing with the complexities of our increasingly immoral culture.] [...]

]]> By: Fundamentally Reformed http://www.fundamentallyreformed.com/2005/12/16/clarification/comment-page-1/#comment-5101 Fundamentally Reformed Sat, 21 Jan 2006 03:09:00 +0000 https://fundyreformed.wordpress.com/2005/12/16/clarification/#comment-5101 "Anonymous", In reply to your questions, let me say first that while I empathize with someone finding Scriptural support for a prohibition of modern music, I do not find that support. Someone may conclude rock music is inherently sensual and worldly, and thus to be avoided. However such a conclusion is not demanded from Scripture. That some rock music is that is obvious. But then so is the message of the song that accompanies it. Scripture nowhere intimates that beat in music is sensual or evil. Rather we see percussion instruments and clapping commended in the Psalms. We are given a positive example of worship before God in the story of David's dancing before the ark of the tabernacle. As for the body moving, what makes it move during a march? Or what about any of a number of cultural styles of music which are inherently non sensual (like Western music, for instance). In fact, where is it mentioned or intimated in Scripture that one's body moving to music is somehow immoral? My body happens to like vanilla ice cream too. Does this mean that my natural like is immoral since it stems from my "flesh"? “Anonymous”,

In reply to your questions, let me say first that while I empathize with someone finding Scriptural support for a prohibition of modern music, I do not find that support. Someone may conclude rock music is inherently sensual and worldly, and thus to be avoided. However such a conclusion is not demanded from Scripture. That some rock music is that is obvious. But then so is the message of the song that accompanies it.

Scripture nowhere intimates that beat in music is sensual or evil. Rather we see percussion instruments and clapping commended in the Psalms. We are given a positive example of worship before God in the story of David’s dancing before the ark of the tabernacle.

As for the body moving, what makes it move during a march? Or what about any of a number of cultural styles of music which are inherently non sensual (like Western music, for instance). In fact, where is it mentioned or intimated in Scripture that one’s body moving to music is somehow immoral? My body happens to like vanilla ice cream too. Does this mean that my natural like is immoral since it stems from my “flesh”?

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.fundamentallyreformed.com/2005/12/16/clarification/comment-page-1/#comment-5100 Anonymous Wed, 18 Jan 2006 15:27:00 +0000 https://fundyreformed.wordpress.com/2005/12/16/clarification/#comment-5100 If you believe that there is Biblical support that modern music is inherently immoral, then why do you listen to it and support a church which has little else besides it? The CCM at your church is modern music not different from what this wicked world sways and dances to. Yes, you can argue that the words are holy, but words are not what makes a person's body move. It is the beat and the sound. Are these not what makes music immoral? P.S. I am not an extreme fundamentalist, but rather someone seeking for something solid and sure to stand on. If you believe that there is Biblical support that modern music is inherently immoral, then why do you listen to it and support a church which has little else besides it? The CCM at your church is modern music not different from what this wicked world sways and dances to. Yes, you can argue that the words are holy, but words are not what makes a person’s body move. It is the beat and the sound. Are these not what makes music immoral?

P.S. I am not an extreme fundamentalist, but rather someone seeking for something solid and sure to stand on.

]]> By: Fundamentally Reformed http://www.fundamentallyreformed.com/2005/12/16/clarification/comment-page-1/#comment-5099 Fundamentally Reformed Tue, 17 Jan 2006 21:10:00 +0000 https://fundyreformed.wordpress.com/2005/12/16/clarification/#comment-5099 Extreme fundamentalists, who would claim to be Biblically motivated, still have less in common with me than non-extreme fundamentalists. They are not enemies, however. There is much we share in common (high view of Scripture, fundamentals of the faith, love for the Lord). Yet many of the views and practices of extreme fundamentalists have a more damaging effect in my opinion. They practice separation over beliefs which are definitely not explicitly taught in scripture (such as pants-on-women being morally wrong, and the KJV-only position being Biblically mandated). I believe there is more Biblical support, for instance, for believing that modern music should be considered inherently immoral or for believing that one is required to separate from people who do not share the exact same view of separation as you do (ie. secondary separation). I still do not hold to those beliefs, but I am more sympathetic to them, than more extreme beliefs. So they are not enemies, but I cannot consider them close friends either. They need to be challenged about their unBiblical beliefs. Ultimately, we all must be open to challenge from Scripture over our beliefs. And that is what this blog is for, in part. Extreme fundamentalists who hold to their beliefs from more exegetically sound reasons have more respect in my mind than many who twist Scripture to support their views. But still I deem their positions faulty and potentially hazardous (to themselves and others). Extreme fundamentalists, who would claim to be Biblically motivated, still have less in common with me than non-extreme fundamentalists. They are not enemies, however. There is much we share in common (high view of Scripture, fundamentals of the faith, love for the Lord). Yet many of the views and practices of extreme fundamentalists have a more damaging effect in my opinion.

They practice separation over beliefs which are definitely not explicitly taught in scripture (such as pants-on-women being morally wrong, and the KJV-only position being Biblically mandated). I believe there is more Biblical support, for instance, for believing that modern music should be considered inherently immoral or for believing that one is required to separate from people who do not share the exact same view of separation as you do (ie. secondary separation). I still do not hold to those beliefs, but I am more sympathetic to them, than more extreme beliefs.

So they are not enemies, but I cannot consider them close friends either. They need to be challenged about their unBiblical beliefs. Ultimately, we all must be open to challenge from Scripture over our beliefs. And that is what this blog is for, in part. Extreme fundamentalists who hold to their beliefs from more exegetically sound reasons have more respect in my mind than many who twist Scripture to support their views. But still I deem their positions faulty and potentially hazardous (to themselves and others).

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.fundamentallyreformed.com/2005/12/16/clarification/comment-page-1/#comment-5098 Anonymous Tue, 17 Jan 2006 11:51:00 +0000 https://fundyreformed.wordpress.com/2005/12/16/clarification/#comment-5098 Does this mean that extreme Biblically motivated independent Baptist fundamentalists are your enemies?? Does this mean that extreme Biblically motivated independent Baptist fundamentalists are your enemies??

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